The World of Avlis

Preface: this IS coming from a player ooc, not from a cleric of Dagath

Harry Hornblower, local merchant and father of two, goes to the nearest grave site and finds a solid stone sarcofagus marked "Morgan Blake."
"Hmmm... Blake... My neighbor across the street is called Blake! Wonder if this is his gran?"
*chuckles as he prys a gold tooth out of the cranium of the corpse* "you wont be needing THIS anymore!"

I meet on a daily basis people who INGAME would not dream of robbing houses, but loot crypts as a regular routine. Often this is from the more or less "reasonable" people of society. Yesterday I was out with a member of the 4A and a well respected guild leader, both of which thought it normal to rob graves.

If Im not terribly mistaken, the above poll will show that people will have a greater tendency RL to rob houses (not that you would do that either, but RELATIVELY speaking). Graves you would NEVER touch. In Avlis it seems pretty much the opposite. Are you people really thinking about what your character is doing? Or are you just picking stuff up because its there?

On another note, Ive noticed that you can go from absolutely lawful to absolutely chaotic in a half hour of burglarizing houses, but taking a prybar to the lid of a grave and poking through the maggoty corpse for something you can sell is not noticed by the engine.

go figure


-aka Shens daddy

I could be totally off base here, but crypt raiding was a fairly popular thing to do from what I could gather in the past. Weren't most of Egypt's crypts well and looted?

I think alot it depends on the era and the sitution of the area and the people involved. At least to me, it 'feels' different when you go into a hundred year old crypt to rob it of ancient treasures that nobody is using and are quite litereally just gathering dust, then when you dig up a newly placed grave to grab a few baubles. It also might be noted that in the latter case the people who placed the grave and would care are likely still around, while in the former, just about everyone who would care or be heartbroken by the sight is long since dead.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Crypt raiding is the prefered method for those who don't wish conflict The owner of the house you're robbing could come home at any time, but that skelly in the casket ain't gonna wake up soon

Just have to watch out for the groundskeeper

Velvet Embrace wrote:Just have to watch out for the groundskeeper

heh heh.... ya... he gets cranky when he hears lids popping open.


Yesterday Shen actually offered to PAY from his pocket, to keep people from stealing from the graves. Ha! That was new.


Holy shit! My ooc question in the poll at the top of the page is TOTALLY showing the opposite of what I expected. I cant believe you people would do that! I stole from my moms purse to play video games as a kid, took candy from the stores a couple times and so on. If I was REALLY hungry and felt I had to steal to survive I would consider breaking into houses, but no way in hell Id open a grave. Thats just fuggin nasty!
Jeez!!

-Shen

Edit: whew... it was neck and neck there! looks like the houses are winning again. I was really starting to worry there!

Well... If I were desperate enough, perhaps I could break into some house and steal something from it... though very unlikely - I tend to be lawful neutral (sometimes good even, hehe ) IRL. And yes, grave robbing is something disgusting, so I would never do that. However, crypt riding in game is a bit different. There are undeads there usually and what I take from crypts is usually the stuff I find on the fallen skeletons etc. Thus, neither me nor my char cares whether the coins used to belong to his grandma's aunt.
Hmm, if there were undeads IRL and I had the same firepower as Ialath does... hmmm hmm... well maybe then I would be able to loot some of them.

my character dislikes graverobbing, and would always try to stop others doing that. I'd alos like to know what excuses people have. In another pw I have even seen people of good alignment steal from graves. Sorry, but that just doesn't match for me. And then the excuses; they won't need it anymore (from a paladin!! for gods sake) or ' checking for vampires (while we hadnt seen any vampire around) oh yeah, and what is that shiny thing in your hand? thatr ring doesnt look like a vampire you twit!!

Question: Why the hell do people bury people with valuables anyway?

Don't you think the living family members could use it more? Or the local orfanage if there is no family?

If there's nothing to rob in a grave then there would be no grave robbers (except for maybe a necromancer who just wants the body )

[/highjack] Carry on. Nothing to see here

Velvet Embrace wrote:Question: Why the hell do people bury people with valuables anyway?

"You cant take it with you." well...some people try to anyway.

I cant think of one ancient culture that DIDNT burry stuff with the deceased. Sentimental people in our western world today still do it to some degree, like burrying Chester in his best suit. "he always liked the blue one best" or what not. Having been to several funerals, Ive seen people burried with all sorts of stuff, kids with stuffed toys and all that.

The thought of digging up a grave and pulling the toy out of her rotting little hand with the idea of dashing down to the market to sell it is just wigging me the hell out.
Basicly Im just saying that unless you are focused on playing a necromancer or some seriously evil shit, you shouldnt be doing it.
I think the AVAILABILITY of it is what makes it attractive. Bloody poor RP.

In response to Rhissaerk, yes, there is a "feels different" thing about old and new graves. I give you that. There are also old and new graves in Avlis ie Deserted Crytps vs Mikona Crypts. It might not be quite as creepy raiding an old tomb, but certainly not the top of morality.
There is also the historical interest. Here in Denmark where I live, we have burial mounds from the viking period. Typicly they are just big bubble shaped mounds of earth out in the middle of a corn field.
http://www.pallefinn.dk/photo/LandskabM ... T0109.html
There are a lot of them. They are loaded with archeological finds and anything in them is valuable for a number of reasons. Some years ago a farmer plowed up two massive gold horns in his field. Big chunky things of solid gold with pictograms telling a story all over them. Some dingbat STOLE the horns from an exhibit and melted them down, sold them. They were absolutely priceless in their original form, now they are no more. There are still pictures of them, but damn you just want to cry over the loss. One can argue the significance of archeology vs. letting sleeping dogs lie, but I honestly think I would starve to death before I ROBBED a grave RL.

-Shen

Weren't one of the horns found again? Or am I completely wrong here?

Well.. I think if someone in RL could open the grave at the cemetary and find, let's say 100 dollars there, I am sure there would be far more cases of grave-robbing.

On the other hand, as it was stated, crypt-raiding was a pretty popular task in the past. I think a lot of archeologists will tell you that it's not common to find a place untouched by robbers.

I bet those robbers weren't lawful good ...

I have no doubt in my mind - (having just lost my grandmother) that I can't make myself open a grave and take something from it in real life.

As Shen I did steal as a kid from a candy store - did take some money from mother's purse to play some videogames - "considered" going into a house and take what I found (never did though!), but no way in hell have I ever considered digging 6 freaking feet into the ground and take something from a halfrotten stinking body of some once loved familymember (not mine that is).

My cup of ....

EDIT: I can't spell

..viewing at it from the RL situation..

What's is the effort to open a grave (at least physically quite challenging) compared to breaking into a house , both compared to the likelyhood of finding something of value, either for sale or for direct use.

If you are desperate enough to rely on criminal acts to pay the next rent or even for the next meal, you'll certainly consider this.

And maybe the housebreaker is even better off compared to a graverobber, when it comes to trial and judgement

.02?

Greggary

Don't think i'd be able to do either.

But opted for Robbing a house if I ever became that desparate *touches wood*. I think it's the lesser of 2 evils. Some might say it's hypocricy. Why can't you steal from a dead person who doesn't need his/her stuff rather than from live people who might be struggling to survive?

But personally, i believe that there might be spirits out there and that i'd rather take my chances against the cops than one riled up ghost.
I think i can feel the influences of watching too many horror flicks when i was a kid. Damn, should've listened to my folks.. now i'm scarred for life

Breaking into a house takes under 5 minutes and the actual robbing maybe 1/4 to 1/2 hour. Police will never respond within 20 minutes of a call. Digging up a grave would take a considerably longer amount of time and yield alot less. I imagine it'd be some really gruesome work too. Prying at a dead persons fingers. Sure, rigomortis leaves after about 36 hours after dead but still.....it wouldn't be good. And dead people don't smell nice.*icks*

Rather be caught breaking into a house than robbing graves too. I think it'd be more socially acceptable to be a common thief than a grave robber....Unless you go goth

You'll never get that dvd player you always wanted in a grave

VETT SCALES L7 wrote: I think it'd be more socially acceptable to be a common thief than a grave robber

Pretty much my whole point. But I see people in Avlis robbing graves like they own the place, then go back to respectable lives where they would never dream of robbing houses.

Where is my both option? Some of us see both as the same thing AND think both are things I'd do.

I *am* going to have to rob, if I have no choice about the matter, and I am given two choices:

a. Rob someone living
b. Rob someone dead

I reckon the dead person wouldn't mind as much as the living person.

That, and the dead person can't call the police ^-^

One thing to note is that you're usualy not dealing with normal dead. This isn't the real world we're talking about. They crypts are usualy filled with undead, and have been robbed dry a dozen times over. Someone cleans the crypt out, stealing everything in it, then it's full of more gold and stuff the next week. How? The only IC explenation I can think of is that the undead are hoarding their finds down there. In which case, you aren't stealing from the burried, you're taking from those who need to be re-burried. Now, if you're talking about a graveyard or crypt without undead, or with undead that aren't in the same area as the coffins, that's different. In that situation it would be just straight up grave robbing.

If you rob graves in RL you are very wrong. VERY wrong.

Krator wrote:If you rob graves in RL you are very wrong. VERY wrong.

I feel the same way about robbing graves in game.

Of course, my characer is... very VERY wrong.

Zyndro wrote:One thing to note is that you're usualy not dealing with normal dead. This isn't the real world we're talking about. They crypts are usualy filled with undead, and have been robbed dry a dozen times over.

Maybe if folks stopped robing them they would go back to sleep forever!

A grave just contains a bunch of inanimate matter, and perhaps some valuables. It just smells and looks gross. Meh.

People take because it is easy. Sure digging up a body in a cemetary where you dig through several feet of earth to maybe get something doesnt happen. It is easier under those circumstances to break into a house. A crypt where all you have to do is walk in the door, spend 10 seconds sliding the lid off a coffin and pick up some gold is a whole different matter. A lot of ancient cultures did bury grave goods but the ones that buried them in big mausoleums outside the town almost all got looted.

Theres a lot less law enforcement worried about the inside of a crypt too. I think If the SOT and EDF made a big deal of policing the crypts and stating it was illegal to take anything then people might do it less. I do agree that its pretty odd for a LG character to loot graves if he actually thinks about it though.

Pfft. Grave robbery and/or near equivalents are alive and well.

One of my clients who died a few weeks ago has had all his old possessions of value stolen between his death and his parents asking for his things...

Odds on someone who'd do that would rob a grave if they thought they could get away with it.

People rock.

well the thing that boggles my mind a bit is not grave robbing in general, but good aligned people doing it. I know it happens, and when I see someone doing it, I'll remember it.