The World of Avlis

Enverex wrote:Just a question, why should there be an ECL if the movement speed penalty is removed (which, to be honest, should be)? Changelings have less feats than most, and when their stats are added together they get a flat "0". The shifting forms ability isn't amazing (try being one for a long time, you'll find it can be more a curse than anything else), and considering the fact Changelings have little else, I think it just about brings them up to normal. This is a question, so please don't delete this post.

Heh, first off, I've been one for longer than you have.

The changing shapes thing is a *huge* advantage, RP-wise. As far as power-RPing goes, changelings are hands-down the best race. My character is involved current in one holy order, one pseudo-holy order, one thieves' guild, and will soon, hopefully, be an officer of the law, as well.

Second, the feats they get are *damn* good. Most changelings are gonna be rogues, which means they're going to use those feats. Even if they aren't rogues, ambidexterity is useful to anyone doing 2-weapon fighting, which, with a dex bonus, is fairly likely, and dodge is useful to anyone.

Then you've got the ease with which a changeling attains the requirement for the Shadowdancer class. You've already got the first feat of the 2 that are normally required. Plus, if you want to be a dual-wielding shadowdancer (which, I suspect, most are), you've *also* got ambidexterity already. That's two feats you normally would have had to take, for *free*.

Finally, getting a bonus to a stat is more good than getting a penalty is bad. Considering a changeling rogue saves themselves *6* stat points over a human rogue with 18 dex, that's a pretty *damn* big advantage. In addition, the vast majority of changelings aren't gonna use wisdom much, much like most half-nymphs aren't going to use intelligence (which is also why I argued for an ECL for them).

Great, so, changelings should have an ECL because they have more ways to RP, and that they should all be clones of duel weilding Rogue/ShadowDancers.... Again, your expecting every changeling to be a complete clone of each other, which would suck.

Sorry, I hate my changeling due to the movement speed penalty, up to the point where I am still heavily considering rerolling him as an Elf or something. I mean I love Changelings, but the movement speed penalty is just...

I'm not going to post anymore in this thread as I am trying to avoid arguing with people all the time, and it's going to make me burnout to be honest.

I don't think changeling is so good for rogue/shadowdancer as it's hard to stay in hide mode because of the movement speed penalty. Think about scene where you are trying to follow someone. Movement speed is already so slow when in hide mode. This is much more worse as a spy than wizard with invisibility.

I'm not saying they should have an ECL along with the movement penalty, nor am I saying that they should be clones of the same character. However, being a changeling most definitely lends itself towards a particular character type, that of the finesse fighter. And they are very good at that particular role, whether it be as monk, rogue, ranger, fighter, etc.

If there were a way to set an ECL only for a particular class, I would advocate that. But there are only two spellcasting classes a changeling lends itself to, and really are ever going to realistically be played: bard and sorceror. And odds are, they're going to be rogue/sorcerors. And bards are good finesse fighters.

I also think gnolls and half-ogres need an ECL. Maybe I'm just ECL-happy. ECLs for everyone!

And y'know what race really needs an ECL? Elf. And half-elf. Not because they're overpowere, just because there are too damn many of them. </angry bitter elf hatred>

I love being a slowie, it makes me feel special

Keflex wrote:ECLs for everyone!

crowd boos

Very well, no ECLs for anyone

crowd boos

Hmm ... ECLs for some, miniature Avlis flags for others

crowd cheers and waves miniature flags