The World of Avlis

Every RPG I play, I play a ranger. And every time I come across a paladin, I feel the same hatred, and I assume the same towards me. Their judgment of every creature, their loyalty beyond reason and their claim to rightiousness of their religion. A good example is of the Paladin you meet in the SoU campaign at the beginning where she refused to save the goblin child. I have also come across many paladin in Avlis that seemed to feel the same way. Does anyone else feel such and animosity towards rangers or paladins? Are these just the effects of Chaotic and Lawful alignments or are these classes bound to clash?

It entirely depends on the character, but for the most part I would say it is the Chaotic vs. lawful ideals that bring any conflict. For the most part rangers and paladins can get along well enough I think though. Of course Rangers can be any alignment, so not all rangers would even have the Chaos/lawful contrast. Some might be NG, which would bring less conflict with LG Paladins. others could deviate from good which would bring more conflict. Depends on the characters I think.

gaminggoblin wrote:Every RPG I play, I play a ranger. And every time I come across a paladin, I feel the same hatred, and I assume the same towards me. Their judgment of every creature, their loyalty beyond reason and their claim to rightiousness of their religion. A good example is of the Paladin you meet in the SoU campaign at the beginning where she refused to save the goblin child. I have also come across many paladin in Avlis that seemed to feel the same way. Does anyone else feel such and animosity towards rangers or paladins? Are these just the effects of Chaotic and Lawful alignments or are these classes bound to clash?

Duh, let my ask something. Do you feel the same hatred, or your PC does?

you really lost me on that one...

If there were paladins in RL, I think I would pick many fights with them, but thats cause I don't need to role play to be ranger, if that helps.

There's no rule that says Rangers have to be Chaotic, you know...

There are Neutral and I think even a Lawful god or two that grants Rangers spells on Avlis.

Well even in the players handbook it says that rangers and paladins are bound to clash.

*shrugs*

I dunno though, my CG Ranger/Wizard just got married to a Paladin the other day and we hardly ever clash. My Trackermage doesn't have any deep seated hatred for paladins but he'd rather not sit around and chat law and politics with a paladin.

Personally I would have thought Paladins would clash with evil characters more than chaotic ones. Chaotic ones would annoy them and exasperate them perhaps, but I can't see a hatred there.

I personally don't clash with any rangers (that know about anyway), but if you want to clash with Paladins and have an IC reason for it - then go for it.

Every RPG I play, I play a ranger. And every time I come across a paladin, I feel the same hatred, and I assume the same towards me.

Every...every...hatred...boy there is a lot of absolutes there...I dont think I have clashed witha single ranger in any RPG I've participated in. I dont know what your issue is....of course you dont have to be chaotic as mentioned before...and even if you were at worst all you would do is probably frustrate us.

Hatred is way to strong a word. IF hatred is what YOU feel as opposed to what your character feels then its purely OOC.

Even chaotic characters can really like paladins. What's all the hating about?

Good. Now go and get online to kill all the paladins so I can kill wihout getting caught.

Alright, "hatred" was deffinitly a wrong choice of words. I think "animosity" would fit mouch better. I don't think its the chaotic-lawful clash that causes so much, but the idea of evil and good beings that causes this tension.

gaminggoblin wrote:Alright, "hatred" was deffinitly a wrong choice of words. I think "animosity" would fit mouch better. I don't think its the chaotic-lawful clash that causes so much, but the idea of evil and good beings that causes this tension.

What?

There are lots of good rangers.

There are definately Evil and Good beings.

What's the tension?

I don't see any reason why paladins and rangers should hate each other unless the ranger is evil. I play a paladin and she's had a large number of IC friends who are of chaotic alignments. It definitely has a lot to do with the individual characters. So long as you're not chaotic evil or a chronic troublemaker, my character probably won't have any problem with yours.

PerkyElf wrote:Even chaotic characters can really like paladins. What's all the hating about?

OK, anecdote warning:

Cha'reth was, as best I could make him, INCREDIBLY Chaotic. He didn't break rules so much as ignore them. Yet he got along quite well with pretty much every Paladin he met, and was always a staunch supporter of the OoG. A lot of it came down to watching the Big Picture and looking for commonalities rather than differences. E.g. Cha'reth and Jorio (ok, he's not a Paladin but he's a LG cleric with the same religion and moral code) were always especially close, I thought, though if they sat down to discuss laws for long there would doubtless be disagreements between them. They had enough in common - enough shared interests, goals, and enemies - that they simply ignored their differences while working together. That's not to say that Jorio approved of Cha'reth's vigilantism, or that Cha'reth approved of Jorio's rigid adherance to rules... but they simply agreed to disagree on those points and achieved a mutual respect.

Chaotics and Lawfuls really don't need to be opposed to each other all the time, any more than Goods and Evils need to be. And before you make some smart-ass comment about the latter, I invite you to consider some of the many cross-alignment relationships in the game - no, I'm not naming names, but I know several Good/Evil couples that roleplay quite well and yet get along fine.

- Aloro

Kai is erratic and impulsive, carrying a Chaotic Good alignment to the extreme, most times. Being a Ranger\Barbarian will do that...

But I count more Paladins and Gorethites as friends than anything else, I imagine:

Brian DeVille - Gorethite
Jand de LaFleure - Torranite, but LN I think.
Zahn Dryer - Gorethite
Tanmar Stronghammer - Gorethite
Kaegan Clovenhelm - Gorethite
Thror - Gorethite
Harbesh - Gorethite, I think...

I am even on passingly good terms with most members of the Ivory Order that I know (Lafreth, for one), and the Dre'Ana, O'Ma, etc.

The Ranger in me gets pissed when they kill animals or unnecessarily place natural resources at risk (even I do this on occasion, but accidents happen). I get mildly upset that I can not walk quietly through the forest with most of them, but there is no animosity concerning philosophy.

Hell, Kaegan and Kai have had a few interesting discussions about the philosophies of Chaos and Order, and I would still entrust my life to the guy.

It's a personal choice what you like, just as much as what you dislike.

Honestly, my favorite gaming session in PnP involved a Chaotic-Neutral Swiss Army character of mine (Cleric/Fighter/Rugue, good for all occasions) and an Elven Paladin going at it after a botched rescue attempt. We were heatedly discussing whether we were too slow to react because we were worried about the morality or if we were just not disciplined enough. The Druid we were rescuing at the time butted in and didn't get two words out before both of us told him to shove it. Had to call game for the night we were laughing so hard.

Then we went on to complete the mission and save the world. *shrug*

[quote="gaminggoblin"] the idea of evil and good beings [/quote]

I'm talking about the judgement of a creature based on its race, I know not all paladins do this, but I'm just generalizing. A good example of this would be the dispute about what pets are allowed in Elysia that took place. I remember argueing with a paladin IC about how a hell hound has as much right to be there as any other creature or familiar.

My arguements are weak, my view is skewed and my writing is a 5th grade level at best, but I do hope you can see what I am saying.

gaminggoblin wrote:

gaminggoblin wrote: the idea of evil and good beings

I'm talking about the judgement of a creature based on its race, I know not all paladins do this, but I'm just generalizing. A good example of this would be the dispute about what pets are allowed in Elysia that took place. I remember argueing with a paladin IC about how a hell hound has as much right to be there as any other creature or familiar.

My arguements are weak, my view is skewed and my writing is a 5th grade level at best, but I do hope you can see what I am saying.

I see what you're saying, but it's just not true in Avlis.

All demons are evil.