The World of Avlis

I was reading this and thought it was interesting in it's application to Avlis

Original Source: http://www.mmorpgdot.com/index.php?hsac ... 053&ID=702

Ekim's Gamer View: Staying With the Game
Ekim, 2003-08-22

Online gaming, especially when it?s an a RPG form, is supposed to be a long-term experience by design. And by ?long-term? they mean months, even years rather than weeks. And yet some people out there complain about the lack of rewards once you get to the forever elusive ?end-game? in these MMORPGs. The search for the hook that will keep gamers playing MMORPGs for a long time continues.
Race to the top

If MMORPGs could be played, and more or less finished (if you could ever call it that), within a few hours, would the genre be better off? In other words, if MMORPGs were nothing more than single-player games that had an infinite replay value, would people be more content? The problem is that some of us out there always try to get to the top as fast as possible, and then complain about the lack of things to do once you get there. The problem is probably not so much the lack of things to do, really, but rather the fact that there is less reward for doing anything once you?re at the top.

And since it usually takes a tremendous amount of time to get to this virtual top in any MMORPG, players get frustrated, disgruntled, once they finally get there. No one cares for the fact that these games were not intended to be played through within a month?s time, and there is no solution for that except to always push the ?end-game? ever further away. But this is only an artificial solution, and it never works. For every step that is created to make it harder to reach the top, there will always be a player that does everything in his power to get there faster than anyone would have anticipated.

So the real problem isn?t that there are power-gamers playing MMORPGs, or that they reach the top too fast. Power-gamers are everywhere, in every genre. Maybe the problem is that there is a top at all. Maybe there should be no limit to what a player can accomplish in an MMORPG. Such a thing is probably inconceivable in today?s world, and it could turn out to be ugly. Players would then complain that they can?t ever get anywhere with the game, that they have no goals to reach. The point is that there will always be some that will complain, whatever happens, whatever is done.

Patience, young Padawan?
Now, what if a game rewarded patience more than effort? Since MMORPGs are supposed to be played for long periods of time by design, wouldn?t it make more sense to reward those that have enough patience to do what it is they should do instead of, or more than the effort that it takes to do it? A system like the one in Eve Online, where a skill is gained through time instead of simply by using it over and over, or killing things repeatedly starts to make sense from that angle. I haven?t tried EO yet myself, but from what I understand the system doesn?t necessarily reward the power-gamer more than the casual gamer, and that is, in my opinion, a good thing.

Of course, the argument against this is that MMORPGs have a monthly cost attached to them. For the player, any player, it is a strong argument. To make a system which would reward patience over effort means that it would also reward those that stick longer with the game rather than those that want to get through the grind before enjoying its social aspects. It could also be argued that such a system is a clever marketing ploy to get a player to pay to actually gain power within the game? And they would probably be right too.

As the market becomes more and more saturated with new MMORPGs, every game has to justify their monthly fee now. Why continue to play game X after reaching the top when you can play game Y that costs the same but apparently offers a bit more. Each game will try to cater to a greater market, and publishers will need to have a good reason for players to stay with their game longer. Most MMORPG player doesn?t have time for two simultaneous games, so if a power-gamer gets through their title too fast, they?ll lose their business because he will go and try a new game next. So a time-based advancement system might seem like a good solution, if the rest of the game can back it up well enough of course.

Keeping the player engaged
We have already seen more new MMORPGs come out since the end of last year than there were on the market in the previous three. Games need an incentive to keep you playing. They need to keep you for a few months at least. So what is the best way to keep a player in an MMORPG? Reward their effort? Players will never have enough rewards to satisfy them for long periods of time?. Remove all advancement limits? Players will complain that there is no goal. Reward their patience? Sure but the gameplay has to be pretty engaging if skills are gained through time instead of effort.

The answer lies within the player community. And unfortunately it?s probably a different answer for every player out there. MMORPG costs continue to rise for players, and more games are coming out. What will they do to keep us playing their game for a long time? What will be the defining feature that will keep a player playing the same game for months and years?

Perhaps they could umm actually come up with some rules for the Games and not call them what they do and get back to the true meaning. ROLE PLAY. not ummm hack and kill all. I got fed up with Hack and Slash at the diablo 2 area. mabie just mabie if they spent some quality time getting some quality dms and some quality player and some true rules for playing on there servers. After all they do own them..... But they seem to just say ohh well we will lose X amount of buisness and all they care about is the bottom dollar not the Player themselfs mabie when they start to care about the Player that actually intends to play the RPG the wya its suposto be played then they will get a good community like avlis. My hope is that avlis will stay around for some time. Even when the Second NWN comes out if that does ever happen or going to a new game all together that has close to the same as NWN capable dunno mabie i am just excessivlly running my head but i just wish they would spend more time thinking things out as avlis has but then again it has taken forever just to develop avlis.


IMO Avlis is still Beta... but that is beacuse its always being modifyed but thats a good thing i think that it should remain that way open to change and further development.

Keep up the good work

I stick with Avlis because it is always under constant development. MOre importantly because I can see it. I'm always finding out about something new. There's always something old I've never seen. It delights ... and constantly. The DMs and builders ALL seem to just LOVE what they do. And that makes all the difference to me.

I also play a MUD when the Avlis servers are down ... and I've been spending alot of time trying to convince them to do things more like Avlis does. Avlis, as an entity of DMs and builders, has a very healthy attitude. "This is our game, we'll do it our way, if you don't like it we'll concider what it is you think should change, try and cater as best we can for everyone's benifit, and if that fails we'll tell you to bugger off."

And i think that is great. Thats how it works when a group of five close friends sits down in a basement somewhere to play PnP and that is how it goes here. Avlis makes me feel like I'm playing D&D with a bunch of friends ... not just logging onto some PvP MUD and hoping I'm not killed right off the bat by some short-dicked PKer.

Avlis is what I've always wanted in an online RPG ... and will always remain so.

Might as well spend one of my leftover post allotments here...

The answer lies within the player community. And unfortunately it?s probably a different answer for every player out there. MMORPG costs continue to rise for players, and more games are coming out. What will they do to keep us playing their game for a long time? What will be the defining feature that will keep a player playing the same game for months and years?

Interesting article. Ultimately it does lie with the player community, and the players. I'm drawing a bit if a distinction here, and I'll explain it shortly.

The bit about what will be done to keep a player playing for a long time, is particularly applicable to Avlis. Afterall, plenty of people have shown how quick they can get to the top, or at least far outstrip many in terms of sheer level advancement.

In a number of respects, Avlis has has already made it clear that it's up to us as players. Once you reach 20th level there isn't much for you to do. At least, not that's tied to your level. In fact, it's been hinted/stated a number of times that being 20 won't get you anything, except perhaps LESS DM love since you'll be at a much higher relative level compared to the majority of other characters. Add to this the fact that it's been stated before that there will always be PGers that slip into Avlis, and if all they want to do is PG, that's fine. They'll recieve little if any DM love, and after they've gotten their 3rd or 4th character to 20 and they see there's nothing for them, they'll leave, and Avlis will be happy.

As for items... everyone understands where Avlis stands on magic items, so I'm not even going there. Suffice it to say, if playing Avlis or gaining levels is all about the items for you/your character, you're going to be sadly disappointed.

As for politics.... not much to be done as far as influenceing the overall gameworld in this regard. Sure, a group might be able to nudge something here, a person might pay a hefty bribe there, but there isn't going to be ingame Lawyers,Politicians, and so forth. Again, there might be some limited exceptions, but as a general rule it's not something that's going to be achieveable except in the most limited of fashion for almost every person.

Being evil/takeing over the world... please. Essentially the same as politics, at least at this time. Able to cause some changes, but nothing significant. The world and so many other things conspire against this, it's not worth serious consideration.

DM quests... unreliable. Owing to a player's RL life, and a DM's RL along with a number of other factors, playing Avlis longterm and relying on DM love isn't going to cut it. They're a nice interlude in Avlis life, but they're not something to be expected.

Crafting... I really can't speak much to this. i experimented briefly with it several months ago, and found no reason to continue it. With the number of changes that have been implemented, this may provide fullfillment for some people, but I think this really ties into the players, and the community, more than a standalone thing in and of itsself.

While there's other things left I'm sure, I'm just going to cut straight to what I feel is the heart of the matter. Players and the player community. This is a pretty blurry area. I define players as the individuals that are involved in the game, and the player community as these individuals working together to achive a goal (whatever said goal may be).

Player community... this is what helps set the tone, and allow for or prevent the friendships from forming. In some ways this is the most fragile aspect of Avlis. I among a number of other people took time off from Avlis, and various others have been doing so in recent months, all for a variety of reasons. At the core of this decision for me (and for some others) was the issue of the player community. The player community manifests itsself in two ways. On the boards, and in the game. Problems and concerns about various aspects of the community have resulted in various rules both on the boards, and relating to things within the game.

However, there have been rewards to this player community as well, in the form of the servers and their continued operation, the number of DMs that are present and involved in the world, expanded world content, RL gear, RL get-togethers, custom classes, custom races, the item trade in from long ago, and many other things. On the whole, I'd have to say the community is pretty good.

On the player side, the reasons for playing long term are going to be various. Some reasons may in fact conflict with other people's reasons. Many of the people that have been around for a decent amount of time are still here because of the RL friendships that have been forged, no matter how fragile seeming these might be to another person (including those that consider themselves friends). Whether or not their various characters get along, a connection is oftentimes made on the OOC level, and it's the chance to hangout with someone you know and like OOC that brings people back to do the same old thing they've done time and time again.

So instead of making a suggestion about what I think others can/should do both as players and members of the community, I'll say what I try to do.

As a player, I try to remember that this is a world full of other people. So when I play I try to make sure that the other people dealing with me can have fun too. Some of my characters seem anti-social? Well they might be, but there's still a way to get some interaction going with them. I always try to leave some hook open so that a person that's interested in making the effort can get some interaction. Essentially, when I play I've got my goals, but I try and remember that other people have their goals too. I as a player won't play a character that is "Bad ass and doesn't take any @$%@ from anyone. He does whatever he wants, and nobody is going to tell him any different". First of all, it's more than a little bit of the cliche for me. More importantly, I don't think it allows for other people to have fun. Sure someone might be able to RP with me for a bit, but it's not really going to be much fun for them. Inevitabley that sort of charcter winds up being a prick, and doesn't really allow other people to advance their character, unless their character is "beats the hell out of people that piss him off, and doesn't care about the consequences".

As a member of the community, I try to really consider what the overall effect of a post is going to have, and is it actually contributing to the community. I won't post something because I'm bored, or because I think it's going to be really cool for me to do something. I also try to consider the ramifications of ideas for Avlis and the community at large, not just my character, or my class.

I also play Avlis because it's the closest thing I've found to a PnP game online. And I freely admit that just like in RL, there's people that I avoid in Avlis. Both players and characters. I'm not going to bother justifying it,and I'm not looking for any helpful suggestions on better ways of dealing with it. I'm simply stating how I deal with it.