The World of Avlis

This is the biggest piece of news for both Avlis and NWN in a long long time. Be ready for when it comes, because if they get it right, this will be the definitive client to use and there will be plenty of new players out there looking to see what modules there are along with a likely fixed server listing mechanism.

The studio has been known for working on Infinity Engine games such as Baldur's Gate through Icewind Dale, and recently released Planescape Torment, as enhanced editions meant for modern systems. Neverwinter Nights is their first foray into Aurora Engine titles. Here is a listing of what the enhanced edition offers:

• Improved Display: Your portrait, combat bar, inventory, and other UI elements adjust in size based on your chosen resolution including 1080p and 4k.
• Advanced Graphics Options: Pixel shaders and post-processing effects make for crisper, cleaner visuals. Enable contrast, vibrance, and depth of field options as preferred.
• Community Endorsed: Original developers have teamed with key members of the Neverwinter Nights community to curate important fan-requested improvements to support players, storytellers, and modders.
• Backwards Compatibility: Works with save games, modules, and mods from the original Neverwinter Nights. A galaxy of community created content awaits.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/arch ... or-pc.aspx

I am pumped!

Nice

If true this sounds awesome

I think the PR department is gonna be getting busy soon.

Sounds great, though I can only imagine what it'll do to all the stuff folks use as overrides. In any case, I won't mind redoing anything, if it has better stuff under the hood.

My main fear is that they'll make the client technically a new patch version so it will be incompatible with the servers. This would mean Avlis and Copap having to update everything to the new client and mandating a new $20 US purchase for everyone playing. On the other hand NWN is only getting more and more finicky as the years go on so the change might be unavoidable in the end just to ensure most people can play a functional or better NWN on modern PCs without bizarre issues.

http://press.beamdog.com/nwnee/

Let's see what's up.

There will be a twitch stream on Beamdog's channel at 12pm pst at http://twitch.tv/beamdog that will likely have more info. I'll catch the vod and post any relevant info.

I'm kind of excited an apprehensive at the same time. I've been looking all over for system requirement changes, and hoping I can handle them. And I've seen some rumors of module asset limit increases and scaling GUI for larger displays. Definitely keeping my fingers crossed on this one.




EDIT
Watched the stream i'm psyched. No system issues at the start with requirements scaling as they add new content, and the fella was reassuring that its gonna run well .

Plus I won a Tshirt ! Woot !

There was a lot discussed in the stream, and there's more on the forum. The new site page is still a bit bare (only a few hours old), but the forum and faq are there, with some interesting info, as well as the release notes pdf. All worth a look.

It won't be changing existing content, since that would break so many existing mods and PWs. Several changes under the hood though, like 64-bit and other things, plus making it work far better with newer hardware and OS's (including Linux... no toolset though), and more being toyed with (go make more suggestions on the forum, since they are in "it's done when it's done" mode). A lot of the new stuff we already have from NWNX/NWNCX and many others can be done, without the new enhanced edition (nothing is really hard-coded anymore if someone wants to tweak it). There's even been some basic shader stuff for the game for years, but I doubt it would be anything close to what they are doing.

From what I can gather so far, converting Avlis would be a huge amount of work, since you are looking at a new server and redoing it all to use updated stuff. Also, the new shader stuff will make our old stuff a bit better, but the real nice things would come from updated content and areas, which would take a ton of work (crazy amount with ~3,500 unique areas). There's also the issue of forcing all players to spend ~$20 for the new game, which might be a turnoff for all the old casual players who come back for a fix when the mood strikes. Maybe things will change there for existing game owners, but it is always about the money, so I doubt it.

I have no clue when this will be released (done when it's done, remember?). I'll pre-order the deluxe version later today (~$40 I think), and hopefully get in on the beta testing too (random pick from preorders... bleh ), since there's no way to be sure of anything until we have the game in our hands, but I wouldn't hold your breath for Avlis to update quickly, or at all even.

After some chat in IRC, I'll add this.

To be clear, do not rush out and pre-order this, expecting to log in here with it and play. It doesn't work with regular servers (like Avlis).

Whether we upgrade or not is an all or nothing thing, since everyone will need the new game to play if we do. The work to do it might be pretty insane too, if it can be done. I have my doubts about us ever doing it, but we'll see.

There's also the issue of forcing all players to spend ~$20 for the new game, which might be a turnoff for all the old casual players who come back for a fix when the mood strikes.

This would probably kill Avlis stone dead, I think.

Lycanthropy wrote:

There's also the issue of forcing all players to spend ~$20 for the new game, which might be a turnoff for all the old casual players who come back for a fix when the mood strikes.

This would probably kill Avlis stone dead, I think.

Going by the 700+ people I saw watching a short notice stream on NWN EE during US work hours, I think it will survive the transition just fine.

Sarmanos wrote:

Lycanthropy wrote:

There's also the issue of forcing all players to spend ~$20 for the new game, which might be a turnoff for all the old casual players who come back for a fix when the mood strikes.

This would probably kill Avlis stone dead, I think.

Going by the 700+ people I saw watching a short notice stream on NWN EE during US work hours, I think it will survive the transition just fine.

I can see your optimism. However that raises some questions:
How many of those people were from the 100-125 active Avlis players we currently have?
How many of the 100-125 active Avlis players would shell out 20 dollars for the return of blocky hands and minor enhancements?
How many players do you anticipate coming over to just one of however many worlds still exist/will once again exist/will exist as a new entity from the 20 dollar cash grab, when we saw nary a blip in our numbers when NWN Diamond was 10 dollars, 5 dollars, or even when it was free last year on GOG?

I can see some bump from nostalgia, and some still-active NWN players getting it in the hopes of better modern hardware support, but I don't see it translating to a rush of new players coming to Avlis.

I won't really delve into anticipating what work would need to be done, because the details are still quite vague. But, any phrase on the subject involving "it should be easy enough to..." is an arcane incantation that will possibly summon forth the mighty mustachio of PlasmaJohn to throw a bucket of water on that notion, like it was the Wicked Witch of the West. I'll just say "I don't think it will be as easy as the hype train thinks it will be".

I agree.

"it will be easy enough to ...... " usually ends up meaning "it will be a total nightmare to ...... "

"total" was not my first choice of adjective there, but this is a family show before the Watershed

Grunt wrote:I won't really delve into anticipating what work would need to be done, because the details are still quite vague. But, any phrase on the subject involving "it should be easy enough to..." is an arcane incantation that will possibly summon forth the mighty mustachio of PlasmaJohn to throw a bucket of water on that notion, like it was the Wicked Witch of the West. I'll just say "I don't think it will be as easy as the hype train thinks it will be".

From what little we've heard they're taking pains to be as compatible as possible. But would that be worth it? Several of the new features would indeed require an enormous amount of effort. Of course if they fix certain annoyances like the DM Client crash due to too many resources it may be worth the pain of migration.

On the other hand some of those features do indeed sound like it would be best to start fresh.

PlasmaJohn wrote: On the other hand some of those features do indeed sound like it would be best to start fresh.

This fills me with hope, and the kind of excitement I felt on the bioware forums back in the day.
I'm not seeing this EE as a new puppy to split my love with Avlis, but as an exciting opporunity to have really the only PC game I'm interested in playing, getting support again from some awesome developers with access to all the source code.

For Avlis going forward I'd just throw out the idea WAY in advance of treating the EE as an opportunity to get some of the Avlis setting into a new server. Maybe bring back Kurathene, or add Galdos...something like that. Different era, almost treating it as nwn2.

Then super far along down the road, based on player numbers and support, start to see how the current Avlis may be transferred over.

But having just one server with the Avlis brand, being worked on in conjunction with the changes beamdog is considering, would keep Avlis in the minds of the NWN community, and I can only see positive benefits being reaped.

See, y'all aren't making the save vs. Grumpy Old Engineer any easier.

There are far too many warts in the NWN engine to seriously consider it for anything other than a nostalgia project. If there's a decision to "start fresh" why would a team want to shackle themselves to an NWN engine when there are far more capable alternatives? The new features they hinted at would require professional level art talents. If you have those sorts of resources available why not use packages like Lumberyard or Unity?

Well the guys at beamdog are the ones doing it, not the Avlis team, I just don't think we should be left out of it because our current system is not compatible/already better.
I think doing a fresh start that can be easily adapted to whatever they come up with is preferable to potentially breaking the avlis systems and alienating the players that can't/won't upgrade.

But no, I personally don't have the skills and resources of a professional developer to completely make a brand new game in a different engine to compete with NWNEE.

*bribes PJ with cases of scotch, or week long passes to the nearest hooker ranch, if he would come back to play in CCC more often*

Only sorta kidding there.

Grunt wrote:How many players do you anticipate coming over to just one of however many worlds still exist/will once again exist/will exist as a new entity from the 20 dollar cash grab, when we saw nary a blip in our numbers when NWN Diamond was 10 dollars, 5 dollars, or even when it was free last year on GOG?

NWN Diamond didn't have working out-of-the-box multiplayer server listings when it was on sale or given away, which explains why it failed to bring in new players. The EE version will, and I'm assuming it will only show the handful of EE-enabled servers, at least in the beginning. Meaning: those who make the jump first will reap all the benefits. More than anything, players want to see full servers. Avlis's playerbase has echoed this repeatedly. Judging from Sarm's screenshots, it looks like Arelith's already got an EE demo up, and it's the only thing listed. Go on, take a wild guess what server new EE owners are going to check out first. (Arelith regularly has 90 or more logged into their two servers as it is, and it wasn't like that even a few years ago. They have been able to grow despite the game's waning popularity.)

Will it be easy to transition? No. But it's a huge opportunity, and those that catch the wave will be the relevant servers for the next 5 years.

Gorgon wrote:*bribes PJ with cases of scotch, or week long passes to the nearest hooker ranch, if he would come back to play in CCC more often*

Only sorta kidding there.

I have absolutely been spoiled by modern MMO mechanics, graphics, and dungeon design. Going back to D&D rules is excruciatingly painful. I blame Jack Vance (Dying Earth) who was the inspiration for D&D's awful spell memorization mechanic. Why have we been saddled with that? Math is haaaaaaaard<whine/> No joke. I'd tell you to read the books but they're terrible. Get them from a library if you're feeling masochistic.

Really I should blame Gygax for thinking that was "fun".

Be glad we don't have to use THAC0 anymore.

News articles on the enhanced edition have also been popping up at major and minor gaming news websites all around. There's definitely going to be some intense new player numbers for anyone who gets on board.

Also, let's say Avlis doesn't upgrade? Avlis won't be getting any more new players period unless you word of mouth your friends into buying what will be the obsolete version of a game that is next to the shiny new version that works better with modern computers. Avlis will just lock into stagnation and depletion and even the people who do want to keep playing and RPing in NWN will just eventually take off for an NWN EE server that will offer what they are looking for. Avlis had at least a slight trickle of new players however small, but this will knock it down to zero if Avlis refuses entirely to make the move.

As for people saying that someone might not spend $20 to upgrade? It is $20. I'll gift it to you myself via Steam or whatever if you are really in such a place that you can't afford it (within reason). If that still isn't good enough I don't know what to tell you.

Sarmanos wrote: I'll gift it to you myself via Steam or whatever if you are really in such a place that you can't afford it (within reason).

You have my axe.

I can offer keys through Steam, Beamdog, or GOG (if/when they offer it there) on a bi-weekly basis for people that need them.