The World of Avlis

Greetings those who bother looking at this, I'm a VERY new player and have come with friends to try out the server.. buuut as all servers i found a few issues I need addressed. I highly doubt they will be fixed but hey.. I can hope.


issue 1- Crafting: While crafting is both interesting and exciteing it has two major flaws. A: you cannot sell what you make unless it is to a player shop, which has no garentee of buying anything you have. C: it has absolutely NO reward for the more time consuming things(Mining being one of them) it can take easil;y 4-6 hours of work collecting and crafting to get something you can either sell or use. Not only that but most crafting requires you to be a fighter(or waste a feat) to do so.

Offer for crafting: make it so crafting has a use, be it more exp for managing to make something, a chance to make something better on accident , make gathering actually worth the time and effort. Anything can be added to this, be it easier crafting, or just add a higher PLAYER XP gain for doing it. as of currently i just kind of laugh at people crafting as it is a waste of time and effort to do something that gives nothing in exchange.
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issue 2- XP/leveling: As many already know the server has massive penalties.
A: if you multi class you get less xp, (This is a normal NWN thing)
B: you get practicly no XP, you get more xp killing rats even as a level 40 then you do a illithid. so managing to do your weekly 'quota' of XP is nearly impossible and you have a better chance of leaving a character online for days for DM exp for events OR not play for 2-3 years and come back to a level 20. Yes, I am actually tempted to do that.
C: most of the server are level 40's or low level players. All XP is pretty much DM given in events, while decent, not enough for some people(Such as myself). 250 xp for running around as a munch of level 40's kill everything while is nice, isn't fun what so ever. I've yet to see any events for evil characters or werecritter players.


Offer to fix:
B:You have a few choices. 1: get rid of your XP cap as it does nothing to make the server fun, more of a chore as it takes irl time to get anything done. 2: you could instead make a 'get xp for this much time playing' for the day such as a small tick of xp(100-250xp per hour maybe based off level?) that requires you to love around or be around RP to do it. or 3: allow DM's to just give out levels based off appropriate RP, or items based off appropriate RP. if a DM see's someone spend three RL weeks 'training' IG, then they should be allowed to just plop a reward for the RP, rather then dink you with .1% of your needed amount of xp.
C: you have a few choices for this one, you can either make adventuring around more fun, maybe random items about or better quests that give special rewards, Another serverI saw had a system where they spawned a random monster in an area the 'hunter' told you, and you had to either kill it, or something that class demanded. a hunter class could maybe be sent to go do something that gives them a lot of crafting components for it, such as your sent to clear out some deer from a farm or kill a wererat, you might get stuff to use for crafting and a little XP in exchange.

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Ya i know, I doubt anything will be done, but it is just some ideas.

I've a few observations on this and can help you out.

Crafting : it is an old very system that has a lot of people who have invested a lot of time in it and it probably won't change. You also can not sell stuff to bio merchants which is a good thing. Nothing was more frustrating that having loot from a dungeon and having no place to sell it because someone drained the bio merchants gold; it was even more frustrating when it was something silly like 50 suits of plate. Crafting does have a use see the recycling system. I make use of this and if I don't clear 100,000 a week I'm being lazy; you also won't be able to do this with bio merchants most of them have a very small gold supply and are really there to soak up crap items no one wants or are too lazy to find a buyer for. Mining is boring, takes a long time but if you are selling to a dedicated crafter you can make good money; as a hint iron is cheap and plentiful won't bring in that much coin. If you really really really want to make money at crafting hire your self out to a few pc shops they take on apprentices.

Multi-classing gives an xp penalty, if you don't like it be human and you get to have which ever two classes you want. I've no clue how this is set up but it's probably an engine limitation and won't change. That being said it is stupidly easy to get xp. Kassha at 40th lvl could clear over 21,000 xp in one dungeon ... granted that is the dungeon people tell you horror stories about, but it gives you a shit ton of xp. It is hard being a lowbie, cop rats are easy to kill and so are you and if memory serves me correctly are there to help give lowbies xp. As you level you won't get much for crop rats (I think at 40th lvl I would get 6 xp) but illthids will still give you quite a bit of xp (40 pts or so). And if you are really crazy there are some things out there that will give 100+ xp .... of course they aren't easy to kill. Another way to get xp is RPOTM, if you win that is about half the xp you need to next level. There are also quests that give you xp and quests that can give you some nice loot but finding out about them gets the FOIG label so you have to ask around. If memory serves me correctly each server has at least one quest that can give you some items and the UD has some of the best ones. As for getting DM love gather those were rats, hit the boards and pm a few I bet you'll find some that would love to run a were rat event.

Oh also, always feel free to ask Kassha stuff.

Some thoughts.

A lot of things you brought up have been discussed in prior on these boards and go back years. Hard to dig through that much content.

Changes do happen. They can take a long time because our builders and testers do it when they have the time. You can always apply to join the team and help.

I think the DM's are very good too about setting up McGuffins and events when they can.

I know being a lowbie can feel like the long haul.

My main PC took over six years to get to level 40 and that was only because of changes made to the xp system during that time. So I confess I'm not an XP chaser and I use my crafting as an excuse to have a reason to go places and interact with people, not necessarily get good at it.

I have throughly enjoyed the stories that I have been able to participate in on the way. I feel that that is my best reward.

I once spent an entire year in a plot where my PC was standing outside the Forest of Midnight in Elysia 'from Dusk to Dawn" and on a few nights, I was the only PC there. The current big plot has been going on for about five years now I think? Someone will remember.

I don't think this is a community where things happen in days or hours.

I understand, I just wanted to point out my current issues I spotted. I doubt anyone will truely take my ideas into consideration and I just felt it would be easier to voice myself then get really pissed off and quitting alltogether.

I want this server to be my new mian, but unless I can do something fun I really have no reason to be here as most people on the server, while nice, sit there and wait for a DM to show up.

Cecedi wrote:I understand, I just wanted to point out my current issues I spotted. I doubt anyone will truely take my ideas into consideration and I just felt it would be easier to voice myself then get really pissed off and quitting alltogether.

I want this server to be my new mian, but unless I can do something fun I really have no reason to be here as most people on the server, while nice, sit there and wait for a DM to show up.

I hope you get to come to the Trade Faire.

Cecedi wrote:I understand, I just wanted to point out my current issues I spotted. I doubt anyone will truely take my ideas into consideration and I just felt it would be easier to voice myself then get really pissed off and quitting alltogether.

I want this server to be my new mian, but unless I can do something fun I really have no reason to be here as most people on the server, while nice, sit there and wait for a DM to show up.

Observations are good.
Suggestions are good.

I would suggest not throwing around the "I doubt anything will be done" or similar lines because it's a self-defeating statement that takes away the objectivity of your post.

As for your other observations. Most of these systems were designed when the servers had a much larger population and a player-driven economy was self-sustaining and viable. The XP system was designed to emphasize RP and events rather than mindless grinding - again, when the server population was bigger, it worked well. Most of us enjoy the journey rather than the destination.

I know things are being looked at, tested and reviewed by the team because bringing new players and encouraging old players to return is the main focus right now and I have complete faith that the team will find solutions and compromises that work toward those goals.

It's a good staff and they go to great lengths to accommodate. That's why most of us are here.

I think the reason crop rats are giving more xp than an illithid for you right now is the level difference. If I remember right there are systems in place that change the xp reward to encourage people to not camp rats for 40 levels, and deter lowbies from going where they have really no business being. Xp rewards from combat drastically drop after the first few levels as well, but it stays decent once you find mobs fit for your challenge rating. Who you party with can alter combat xp too if I remember right.

Crafting can be most rewarding when you join a crafting guild which tend to have a steady demand for products, massive storage for resources, and can share recipes with other members to speed your growth. It's well known that the Avlis Arms and Armor Association has military consignment chests that spit out gold for crafted items as we sell them to various NPC militaries in the world, as well as to other PCs. It's quite a grind to get in though to keep thieves and gold diggers out. The crafting system, like combat, takes time and effort to become truly profitable. While crafting certainly takes longer to get good at a combat master might be making 50,000 from a decent dungeon haul that they usually split with other party members while a crafting master is making at least twice that (and don't have to split,) from stuff they find exploring and killing anyway.

I'm pretty sure the team has noticed the number of lvl 40's and have implemented things to encourage us to retire them, or reduce their levels to rebuild and grow them. I keep playing mine because she's trying to slowly work her way up a guild ladder and needs all of her current abilities. I have around 50 alts to bring out, most of which are around lvl 10 just from collecting dust I admit, but aren't all as fun to play. While leaving for a few years may get 20 levels of afk experience, characters still have that basic gear, (and little coin to buy better gear,) and some of my dusty collection have problems because the spawns kind of assume they have gear fit for their level. The dust of the vault also doesn't make contacts or connections with other players, leaving a vault dweller as a potentially powerful if under-geared curiosity with little place in the world until they sit down and mingle.

If you ever see the gamespy ID Selunae log in, send me a tell or something though! I've a couple already made characters looking to join the wererat swarm, others that need interaction to truly form, and I'm always willing to build the perfect sidekick if a person needs it.

As well there's a thread in Ask The Team where players can post suggestions like this for consideration, which has really helped this world grow.
http://avlis.org/viewtopic.php?f=174&t=52126

Welcome to Avlis by the way!

In some respects I can agree with the comments you've made, Your account is only 14 days old, though you may have been playing for awhile, I wonder if it was really long enough to come to understand why things are the way they are. Also, while I mean no offense, prefacing your post with " i found a few issues I need addressed" comes off as very presumptuous to me.

Crafting:
Crafting on avlis is over a decade old, it has gone through several changes over time. Originally you got as much player xp as you got crafting xp, you could literally craft your way to 10th level in a reasonable amount of time without ever swinging a sword.

This was the first thing to be changed. The second was changing crafting to a player economy, as mentioned earlier, biomerchants would regularly be filled up with infinite slings, shortswords and stacks of armor to the ceiling making selling anything else a near impossibility, it also flooded the economy with gold.

There are two crafts however where even low level items can be very useful. FOIG is the saying here, it stands for "Find out in Game".

The recycling system is now the profit center for most crafters, except for those crafters who have reached the levels where actual useful items can be made, yes they do actually exist, but not at a level you will witness in 14 days of gameplay.

Xp:

A: if you multi class you get less xp, (This is a normal NWN thing)

Only if you are doing it wrong do you get the penalty, I think almost all of my PC's multi-class, not a single one has a penalty. To avoid the penalty, you must choose your classes and levels carefully. But the rules are fairly simple.

For dual class PC's make sure one of the classes is the preferred class of the race you are playing (in the case of humans this will be the class with the most levels) - If you do this there will be no penalty ever


For triple class pc's, do the same, make one of the classes be the preferred of the race, the other two classes must be within 1 level of each other = no penalty

If however you choose to be an Elven Ftr/Cleric/monk then all of the classes must remain within one level of each other to avoid the penalty.

Prestige classes do not count and can be any distance in levels from any other class without incurring the penalty.

In any case, the multi class penalties are hardcoded into NWN and the team couldn't fix it if they wanted to.

B: you get practicly no XP

Hyperbole much? as a 40th level you get 4 xp for a rat (crop rat), I tested it, for an illithid it varies but I got 25 for one i killed in the salt mines, 4 is not greater than 25. There was once an anti-towing code if I'm not mistaken, it may still be in effect, though I know that vast majority of our high level players are happy to let low levels tag along for the fun.

But here is surprisingly where I can relate, because in 14 days, so long as you avoided a DM event, you probably aren't past 6th level yet, that can be frustrating I understand completely.

The team is always considering things to help retain players so it wouldn't surprise me at all if there might be some change in this department.

C: most of the server are level 40's or low level players:

Yeah sorry, this is the truth, its a game that we love but lets be fair, its a bit long in the tooth, Avlis has been a going concern since late '02 early '03 and its player base has declined. Yes many pc's are 40th level, it may surprise you to learn that some of those pc's are actually getting delevelled so they can work their way back up to 40th level all over again, I think that says a lot for how much they enjoy Avlis.

Talk to those 40th level pc's, you will be surprised at how much they will be willing to help. Provided you don't talk to the ones that really want to bend you over backward on an altar to maleki.

Remove the cap:

The cap has been around a long time and it has a lot of reasons behind it, Avlis has never been about getting to X level as quickly as possible, while the size of the cap might be in play, I would be surprised if it was ever considered to be removed.

xp per day:

I could be mistaken I think that was tried either on the kurathene server or the nwn2 server. this too would surprise the heck out of me.

allow DM's to just give out levels:

I have two pc's who have received entire levels through rp play, so this is already out there. What the criteria is I cannot say, nor would I.

Make adventuring more fun:

I think our DM staff is always trying to do this, keep an eye out for mcguffins which are one-off pre-planned adventures that any DM can setup on the fly. Mcguffin rewards are always better than a solo adventure.

Finally, there is a thread here on the forums called "Ask the Team" there only team members can respond to your inquiry, that is a really good place to start if you really wish to inquire about change.

I think if you give it time, you will come to find Avlis to be an engaging well thought out fun place to be, I really hope you do, next weekend is one of our semi-annual trade fairs, they are hot beds of RP and I think often provide some of the best interaction on avlis. Including meeting almost every PC in the system.

Cheers, I hope you come to enjoy your time here.

Crafting updates: Anyone can suggest ideas, but to make the ideas a reality we need code. To see your ideas implemented code them up and submit the code for review.

Adventuring: I've gained a level on three different low to mid levels alts this week from adventuring without a DM. Just find some player characters and ask if the want to adventure.

I've yet to see any events for evil characters or werecritter players.

The more niche and evil you are, the more likely it is it's gonna happen behind the curtains, not advertised to strangers and/or organized by the players themselves with possible aid from a DM. I mean I know for a fact, for example, that there's a small bunch of werethings running 'round. It's just something you'll have to help make happen.

As for the leveling issue, as a returning player I'm happy to see how easy it is to level a new low level character here now. It used to feel so much harder back in the day, so everything's relative.

You should really avoid the multiclass penalty, though. Just level the combos D&D likes you to level or you'll be doing yourself harm.

Cecedi wrote:
issue 1- Crafting: While crafting is both interesting and exciteing it has two major flaws. A: you cannot sell what you make unless it is to a player shop, which has no garentee of buying anything you have. C: it has absolutely NO reward for the more time consuming things(Mining being one of them) it can take easil;y 4-6 hours of work collecting and crafting to get something you can either sell or use. Not only that but most crafting requires you to be a fighter(or waste a feat) to do so.

Offer for crafting: make it so crafting has a use, be it more exp for managing to make something, a chance to make something better on accident , make gathering actually worth the time and effort. Anything can be added to this, be it easier crafting, or just add a higher PLAYER XP gain for doing it. as of currently i just kind of laugh at people crafting as it is a waste of time and effort to do something that gives nothing in exchange.

There is a lot of truth here. There are some crafts that still have value (either gps or personal use) even at modest levels:- specifically alchemy and artificing. The rest .. meh .. not really. Even at high level you rarely make back what you sink into it. Weapon making for example is more a vanity project - making weapons with your name on them - rather than having any chance of getting back the resources you've put into them. If you want to earn gps then there are much better ways to do it.
Having acknowledged that fact, there are more reasons to do crafting than xp & gps. Puzzle solving for one (if you're that sort of person), exploring for another ( hunting around for that ingredient) , RP for one more & I think PC shop keepers help keep the world alive.

You don't need to be a fighter class to do most crafting. Did you know that mages can mine for ore and gems now? You do need some sort of casting ability to do artificing. (Ah, just don't get me on the subject of a pally trying to do artificing!)

Cecedi wrote:I understand, I just wanted to point out my current issues I spotted. I doubt anyone will truely take my ideas into consideration and I just felt it would be easier to voice myself then get really pissed off and quitting alltogether.

I want this server to be my new mian, but unless I can do something fun I really have no reason to be here as most people on the server, while nice, sit there and wait for a DM to show up.

Yes, the chances are they will take your views under consideration. Whether or not they agree is another matter entirely.

If you want something to do, then why not start your own adventuring group? You don't have to wait for a DM to set something up. I am rarely involved in any DM plots/events due to time zone issues, but I'm quite often involved (using alts) with player run crawls and other stuff. There are lots of places to explore and get killed in, on this world and the others. I've been killed in most of them at one time or another.

And, yes, do attend the trade fair.

I feel you on the XP cap, I don't think it should be removed entirely, but especially at low levels, I can hit my cap in 30 mins. I do like to RP, in fact I love to RP, but if I'm hopping on to play some while my son has a nap and there's no other bugger on, it's annoying as all hell to not be able to do anything productive. That being said, I will happily sit for hours and RP rather than dungeon crawl on my own, when people are there to RP with. Hell, I RP to myself when I'm running around the place.

Crafting, to me is the single most boring way to spend my time, I think I have one character with 6 levels in carpentry and blacksmithing, and that's it. It annoys me that I can't mine my own ore without the use of a particular item that gives me about 5 mins of mining time, which, with the way mining works, is not very long at all. But, as I say, I'm no crafter.

XP in general is hard to get compared to other persistent worlds. Avlis is a long-haul game, I have a level 26 character that was my first character on Avlis... that was 12 years ago. My current main, Eleanor, took I think 8 years to reach level 40. People have done it quicker, I know.

RP does not pay, not in XP nor in gold, but that's not why we do it.

TL;DR - Take your time, make a character and stop worrying about what level it is. I'm not talking about your "build" I'm talking about your character, the part that matters on Avlis.

Welcome to Avlis!

I know you've already gotten a lot of good feedback, I figured I'll still add my thoughts:

Crafting:
Yes it is a very old system designed for an older Avlis economy. Some aspects of it are newer and improved (like the artificing system) but in general it probably could use some work. If you think you have what it takes to help improve the crafting system, why not sign up to join the Avlis CCC team? Learning how to use the toolset and the base code it uses takes a little bit of time, but could be very rewarding!

Experience and Progression:
The experience cap is designed to ensure a healthy curve in the level growth of your character. The cap itself increases as you reach higher levels to ensure the curve can be maintained if you choose to hit cap each week. Quest, crafting, and dm experience does not count towards this cap (which is one of the reasons people craft). Our experience system is designed to reward the best experience for challenging opponents to the level of your character. Much higher CR creatures often don't reward as well.

In my own experiences, I have no trouble hitting cap every week if I want to put the effort into it. Traveling in groups helps tremendously.

Average Player Level:
It is true that most of our long standing players have at least one level 40 character. We do have systems in place (remort and refresh) to allow these characters to drop back down into lower levels if the player so chooses. Most of the time though, people will make alts and bring them out when they run out of things to do for the main. Several dms have been running lower level plots for non-epic PCs so make sure to check the board and event calendar often for news of these events.

My final advice to you is communication is key. Avlis has an IRC chat room where many of our players hang out, even when not in game. If you're ever looking for people to play with, its a great place to start.

Hope this helps!

Heya, just chiming in with my 2 cp here....I'm a crafting junkie and one of the longer-time crafters around on Avlis (9+ years), though I'm not the PC with the highest level in every craft (or maybe even in ANY craft), there are some I'm pretty high in with my alts (high teens and up in Carpentry, Armoring, Blacksmithing, Alchemy, Artificing), and some I'm pretty low in, and at least one can't do Artificing at all, yet still has 500 xp in it somehow...(and I'm not the only PC like that)...I've crafted with my alts at least some on every CoPaP world extant now, and some that aren't anymore, and a helluvalot on some worlds. And some of the basic things you and others are saying here, even those who are Team members, are wildly off in accuracy when you consider the wider CoPaP experience for a crafter. Don't assume what's true on one world is true for all. There are things you can do on one CoPaP world you can't on the others. There are tools that work differently on other worlds (like, say, chop trees with a greataxe or mine with two tools at once or mine with a mace, hammer or club). There are rare ingredients you can't get on one world you can get on another. There are more common ingredients that are hard to find that are much more common on another world. There are some systems that that will catalyze each other. There are some ingredients you only find on one world and are only used in that world's crafting systems. There are some ingredients that are usable in crafting systems from another world, and some that may be similarly named but aren't usable off-world.

Need a loophole to enable mining? There are several, depending on which craft, your PC's feat set and which world you're on. Getting you down that Avlis' crafted goods are OOC marked stolen and not easily sellable to Bioware merchants? There's "loopholes" there too - the token/recycling system is only one way to go, besides selling them to PCs who don't craft, yet want the things you can get with tokens. I can think of several other ways. FOIG.

Try going to some of the crafting classes and meetings out there and joining or discussing things. Keep your eyes and ears open, IG of course and OOC too. I had a 5-hour Q&A last week at ACE crafting class, people kept coming in with questions and trying some new crafts with lowbie alts. Recent craft lessons at ACE have included starting things in every trade skill and craft except Artificing (and Mirk will get in a guest teacher for that soon) - we've also done poisons in herbalism and specialist trap crafting, we'll do survivalist meat salting soon too; Mirk takes people off on gathering tours off-world and on Avlis. Other PC's and other guilds have held class sessions I've attended with my alts for Artificing, Jewelry-making, Tailoring, and Alchemy most of which were open to all, not just guild members. Most were even well-advertised IG.

Spoiler about quests:

More are coming!

I am just a very slow builder. (And you, yes you who are reading this now, psst. Send the team a note if you're looking to join the team and want to build quests!)

In all seriousness there are already a lot of quests on Avlis. Avlis is just a huge place so the quests are somewhat spread out, but you can see some of the ones recently added in Summerleaf if you like (for lowbies.)

Everyone has covered most of what I would say, so just a few more points.

- Many of our quests and other XP rewards have been redone to ignore a multi-class penalty. Not all obviously, but many.

- Crafting revamps. Boy have those been discussed and hashed out over the years, both in public and behind the scenes. Are they needed? Definitely, but changes aren't simple things. One change to something affects many other things, like the player economy, XP, and also play balance. I'd love to see less grinding involved with crafting (Nob's artificed stuff was an interesting change), and even suggested a few ways to reduce it, like shortened table time, but making current stuff even easier won't really help. Reducing a few gold-sinks maybe, but how would that affect the economy? The system is already very biased in that a few top crafters can dominate the market and set prices, while others can't afford to make things as cheap because of failure rates. *edits* Loot drops include may crafted items now as well, which really can skew the economy, and would be another thing needing some TLC.

Avlis doesn't say balance is a top priority, but it is a factor in things. Make some new crafted uber toys in bulk, and what happens to DM rewards and encounter difficulty? There are examples in the past of how crafted items had a pretty big effect on both of those, starting with something called BattleBands (extra DR). Once they became fairly common, they were "the item" to have, and slowly some encounters even started adjusting to compensate for the extra DR many PCs had. I'm sure they made some DMs grumpy too, but they are great at dealing with anything.

If we could craft anything allowed by CoPaP restrictions, and even add properties to existing items, you also have to consider how that affects DM rewards and loot. If DM stuff is less special, do they start handing out even better stuff, and what about those CoPaP rules again? Every little tweak requires looking at the big (huge) picture that is Avlis, so I don't envy whoever takes on that challenge.

Hi! If you see any thetamlyone characters, shoot me a tell for adventure, crafting lessons, or some ways to make gold. Several (most) player merchants from the big ones like HEAL to the smallest stall buy crafting ingredients, potions, etc. Just try to sell them whatever, and they'll either give you gold or not, but no harm done if they don't buy something you put out there. They'll just give it back.

Meet people. We're fun!

Just my little input for what its worth. My character does not stand around waiting for a DM. My Character does what he wants to do when he wishes to do them. Well, tempered with any requests he gets for aid from others. My main aim , and always has been, is RPing on Avlis, not waiting around for a DM. all any other PC has to due is just ask and my PC usaully will give what aid he can. Depending on who is asking, he may have a more or less favourable outlook. At times, my RL situation has affected my motivation to due things IG and I am sorry for that. But my PC has helped a lot of other characters through the years and he will always try to do that for as long as he is around. Just that he has a different outlook them most Southland PCs so, depending on what another says or how they ask , might cause a different response then expected.

Anyways , just my perspective on that one point.

Thank you for all the feedback! I'll keep trying my best, but I came across one thing I need to ask...

I saw 'villains' are nearly impossible due to pretty much half of of the server is LvL30+. While i'd LOVE toplay say.. a were critter, i can't due to fact i'd be roflestomped as soon as I change, even if I am smart about it.

Is there a way around this without needing to have my own 'posse' &/or waiting 12 years?

Being actively destructively evil has it's consequences.

I know it seems like cheese but you can be a were-critter when nobody is looking and you're out alone, or with people you are VERY sure aren't going to take action against you. You just need to take into account the IC hatred because of the general outlook of MOST (if not you) were-critters. Were's are very similar to Sereg that are basically Kill-On-Sight (KOS) for most people because of racial hatred.

Shahesk / Goblins / Kobolds / Orcs / Bugbears don't get it easy either. And they have more favorable backgrounds.

Cecedi wrote:Thank you for all the feedback! I'll keep trying my best, but I came across one thing I need to ask...

I saw 'villains' are nearly impossible due to pretty much half of of the server is LvL30+. While i'd LOVE toplay say.. a were critter, i can't due to fact i'd be roflestomped as soon as I change, even if I am smart about it.

Is there a way around this without needing to have my own 'posse' &/or waiting 12 years?

Easiest way to be a low-level villain is... literally to be a low level villain. Someone always needs a good henchman. Getting together with other Xenonite PCs would be a great start.

All the villainous PCs around - and there are a couple - did their time working for someone else first. It definitely doesn't need to take 12 years, but you do need time for the character to grow and progress to the point where they have a support network and enough IC power (and I do not mean character levels) to make them credible.

The trick is to enjoy the journey and not fixate on the destination. Then one day you'll look up and realise you arrived a while ago.

Cecedi wrote:Thank you for all the feedback! I'll keep trying my best, but I came across one thing I need to ask...

I saw 'villains' are nearly impossible due to pretty much half of of the server is LvL30+. While i'd LOVE toplay say.. a were critter, i can't due to fact i'd be roflestomped as soon as I change, even if I am smart about it.

Is there a way around this without needing to have my own 'posse' &/or waiting 12 years?

Heya...

Thoughts from the player of a necromancer, here! My character was a lowbie once too

- Choose your battles
- Expect to get threatened a lot
- Remember that it's important to find places where you have common ties to people or shared goals, i.e.: are there other warriors who need to learn the art of the sword? are there other mages who love arcanery? People who will discuss psionics with you psion regardless of alignment? Or maybe it's just that your PC has a vengeance against gnolls, and you've found another PC gnoll-hater?
- you will need to work with the 'good' side when it's to your own benefit
- Look for allies in the other folks that are getting crap for possibly being 'evil', including those who are -less- powerful than you.
- Leave full out-and-out villainy (banditry, attack on sight sort of things) to the NPC villains. This is a persistent world and your character won't last long if you make too many enemies. Yes, your character will return from death if they get killed for their actions... but so will any PCs you manage to kill, and they'll remember your actions.

Added to the previous post which has a lot of good stuff:

You can get away with outright villainy if you do it entertainingly enough that people will want to see your dastardly ways. It's more like being a bard than being a bandit. You're subscribed to the Evil Character forum, right? Tons of posts about everything there.

There are many kinds of villains, just as there are many kinds of heroes. There are deliberate villains; your standard CE world destroyers and thugs, your manipulators, poisoners, power-mad mages, drug lords, arrogant pimps even, and yes even entertainingly vile people like the American gangsters in the 20's. There are also a variety of more tragic villains who might aspire to do good, but are blind to the methods they use, or those who are just victims lashing out, some perhaps unwittingly serving darker forces. Villainy need not be restricted to the bullying brute.

That said all the delicious flavors of evil can be more freely explored on the Underdark server. The NPCs are loaded with fatally rotten quests and errands in the few spots of civilization Below and there are very few paladins to smack you with the stick they normally keep up their backside. Get good at navigating the wild tunnels and you've also got hiding spots for weeks after causing trouble under the sun, and the tunnels even come up in spots across a few different servers!

I think it's safe to say as well that villain characters should be very sensitive regarding things like the Gentleman's Agreement, Griefing rules, and other CvC stuff on an OOC note. I've been very enjoyably murdered and threatened before while these guidelines were observed.