The World of Avlis

I should probably find a D&D forum for this kind of thing but I figure there's a ton of hardcore D&Ders here and it IS a NWN-related question.

A quick question on monks between the NWN version and PnP. In NWN, the monk gets a second unarmed attack at 6th level (+4/+1) while in PnP it looks like that doesn't happen until 8th level (+6/+1). I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. What's the deal?

Flurry of blows is also different between NWN and PnP too, being a fixed -2 in NWN but going from -2 to -1 to no penalty as levels rise in PnP, right?

Danke!

Cushman wrote:A quick question on monks between the NWN version and PnP. In NWN, the monk gets a second unarmed attack at 6th level (+4/+1) while in PnP it looks like that doesn't happen until 8th level (+6/+1). I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. What's the deal?

Flurry of blows is also different between NWN and PnP too, being a fixed -2 in NWN but going from -2 to -1 to no penalty as levels rise in PnP, right?

Every class gets gets an extra attack when their base attack bonus gets to +6, and then a third at +11, and, if you hit +16 before epic (i.e. you have some fighter levels), you get a fourth.

As a monk, you get an extra attack at your primary attack modifier when you use "flurry of blows" as of first level. The only thing that changes is the penalty for using penalty of blows.

So, the full round attacks are:
normal, flurry of blows
1st level: +0, -2/-2 (-2 penalty for flurry of blows)
2nd level: +1, -1/-1
3rd level: +2, +0/+0
4th level: +3, +1/+1
5th level: +3, +2/+2 (-1 penalty for flurry of blows)
6th level: +4, +3/+3
7th level: +5, +4/+4
8th level: +6/+1, +5/+5/+0 (extra attack per round for +6 base attack bonus)
9th level: +6/+1, +6/+6/+1 (-0 penalty for flurry of blows)
etc...

This is all based on the 3.5 rules. NWN is based on the 3.0 rules which are quite different.

NayalaGelbert wrote:This is all based on the 3.5 rules. NWN is based on the 3.0 rules which are quite different.

Ahh, this answers it then! Thanks for the quick reply Nayala.

And ouch.

regardless of flurry of blows, monks get special treatment when using their fists and kamas.

Normal classes get an extra attack at BAB +6 and another attack every +5 BAB's after that.
For monks, they get another attack at +4 and an extra attack every +3 after that.

Because of this, pure fighters max at 4 attacks. But monks can get 5 attacks. Bear in mind, you don't have to be a pure monk to get the 5 attacks. That's before flurry of blows.

That's how it works in NWN, however in PnP it specifically states that non-monk classes don't stack with monk for determining the number of unarmed attacks.

Also, in PnP, once you go monk (or paladin) you can't take levels in other classes if you ever want to take a level in those classes again. There are a few exceptions for monk- and paladin-specific prestige classes, of course.

I've played a lot of monks in NWN and while hand-building some character ideas for PnP I came across the 3.5 BAB and flurry table and was taken aback by the significant difference. KinX, the extra attack for 3.5 monks comes at level 11 for PnP monks in the form of a bonus "greater flurry" feat that eventually leads to the 5th unarmed attack at 15th.

Speaking of PrCs, hand-building characters to calculate BAB, skills, feats and feat prereqs, yada yada for PrCs has been an eye-opener on all accounts. I'd used a hand-dandy spreadsheet (CharacterBuildCalculator) to do all of my NWN things and it is SO much faster and easier to use. Alas, it doesn't have all of what I need for PnP (which is nutso complicated ).

And there are feats (SOOOOO many feats!!! ) that let you get back to monk after leaving it (beyond the PrC's that allow for 'stacking' and continuing monk levels after finishing with them) but that's not a problem.

From what I can tell, the entire two-weapon fighting feat tree in PnP is over the top. I don't even know how many attacks (say fighters) can get when maxed out on those. Something like 10, 11 for humanoids? And don't even start on the six-armed PC-playable creatures I saw referenced somewhere.

Thri-Kreen