The World of Avlis

I have been to Deglos three times now and each time it ended badly. I know it is still under development and all that but the place is a bit of a death trap.

Visit 1: I walk into what I thought was a shop in a town and get jumped by 5 clerics of Meleki who proceed to hold me then kill me before I can even draw my axe.

Visit 2: I kill a rat and find that due to some messed up faction memberships the whole of Deglos is hostile. I patiently wait a couple of days for a reboot and head back in.

Visit 3: While smelting ore in the Mining Temple in Urbaz I find myself one ingot short of making a suit of chainmail. Being a worshipper of Fegell and spying many chests full of Iron Ore I assumed it was there for the use of the devout. I take two lumps of ore, planning to grab some to replace it when I return with a full load of copper, then lo and behold the Clerics of Fegell all rush me proclaiming me a thief!

Could we please have some sign up to explain the purpose of some of the stuff around the place like the Ore bins? I spoke with the Clerics and they didn't mention anything and there is no information about joining the Miners Guild (nor any sign to warn folks off touching the ore). If those chests are only for the use of guild members sholdn't they be under lock and key? I had to run out of Deglos again and hope that all is well after a reboot as I have no wish to harm a servent of my god.

At the moment I have to wait again before I return and have to be bloody careful not to touch anything once I do. Any chance we could also add some mor forges and anvils around Urbaz?

EDIT:> Changed the title of the thread since 'Deglos is a Nightmare' is too offensive.

Mooge wrote:Visit 3: While smelting ore in the Mining Temple in Urbaz I find myself one ingot short of making a suit of chainmail. Being a worshipper of Fegell and spying many chests full of Iron Ore I assumed it was there for the use of the devout. I take two lumps of ore, planning to grab some to replace it when I return with a full load of copper, then lo and behold the Clerics of Fegell all rush me proclaiming me a thief!

Could we please have some sign up to explain the purpose of some of the stuff around the place like the Ore bins? I spoke with the Clerics and they didn't mention anything and there is no information about joining the Miners Guild (nor any sign to warn folks off touching the ore). If those chests are only for the use of guild members sholdn't they be under lock and key? I had to run out of Deglos again and hope that all is well after a reboot as I have no wish to harm a servent of my god.

well, if you're such a dedicated cleric of Fegall, why would you steal the ore from your fellow clerics? that dure doesn't make much sense now does it..

just because you got a few things messed up, doesn't give you the right to call the server a nightmare. if you want to rant about it then go to the R&R forum and do it to your heart's content..

Like I said in my first post I didn't think I was stealing it since it was sitting for all to access or so I thought (Doh! ). If I had thought I wasn't supposed to use it and I was playing a rogue I would have stolen it without getting caught. I am also not playing a cleric, my character just worships Fegell.

I'm just pointing out a couple of things I, and from what I heard some others, have fallen foul of. Sorry if it came accross as a rant, I was a bit miffed after waiting to return to Deglos to have to flee again granted but I am offering a suggestion here.

I'm just suggesting some signs as a warning or maybe some scripted containers like the ones in the AAAA hall so the unwitting can select the option to steal and are well aware that they are not supposed to take it. Even if it's just a warning from the clerics rather than a barrage of spells the moment I pick up a single lump of ore.

Also there seems to be a real lack of anvils around the place. For a dwarven town right next to a mine this seems strange and means that if there are more than two people crafting you have to join the queue.

Like I said in my previous post I know this area is under construction, some things will go screwy granted (the factions seem a bit skew - not long ago I heard the Clerics of Fegell slayghtered all the NPCs in town). None of this can really be fixed unless it's reported on.

Given the consequences of the actions I just feel the trial and error approach is a high risk one, for the sake of a simple sign. I'm playing a 5th level character and I've only just escaped with my life a couple of times. In my travels around Deglos I have seen at least six player corpses scattered around the place. From my personal experience the place is a death trap. As it gets fleshed out and the bugs ironed out it will be fantastic but if you ain't prepared for any critisism or suggestions then I guess it's just pot luck how it turns out.

Mooge wrote:Visit 2: I kill a rat and find that due to some messed up faction memberships the whole of Deglos is hostile.

LMAO!

KTA

But your dwarven everythings learned the hard way!

KTA wrote:

Mooge wrote:Visit 2: I kill a rat and find that due to some messed up faction memberships the whole of Deglos is hostile.

LMAO!

KTA

This almost messed up a big plot already...a character kills a rat on the way to the ferry-Ogre and the whole town goes hostile including him. It is then you realize that the connection between the two part of Deglos is very spurious indeed. Unless i'm mistaken, you can block your entry to the entire main body of deglos by antagonizing the ogre ferryman, or even block it for all other players by killing him, correct? There is no (perhaps long) walkaround?

M.

there is a walkaround.... it includes 2 more servers

edit: now that i think of it it involves only one more server

Lafferty wrote:there is a walkaround.... it includes 2 more servers

right...

_Wake_ wrote:But your dwarven everythings learned the hard way!

HarHaarr!!! That's the spirit! From my perspective I just have to wait for a reboot then all should be well. I don't plan on making the mistake again

Even if things arn't cleared up by this I'm sure a friendly local DM will allow me to RP my way back into the temples good books. After all it was a misunderstanding and I only got 1 lump of ore.

I'm just thinking of other folks who don't know about this, especially since it can ruin the day for the whole party. For the sake of at least putting up a sign it could save a lot of folks from making some costly errors. After spending so much time in Elysia I'm used to killing rats on sight (Gots tae keep th'vermin at bay lest they chew through a suppotin' strut!) and as far as having an unlocked box of ore in a mining temple in the next room from a forge. Well, I put two and two together and came up with five. I thought I was enjoying the generosity of Fegell (May his hammer strike true). I reckon if they are reserved for the miners guild they should be under lock and key in a guild area but I'll settle for a sign warning people not to go near it if you ain't a member.

Anyway, I now know that when in Deglos, open nothing, kill nothing that does not attack you and make the halfling walk through the door first.

Sadly if the official response is the one posted above then I'm just wasting electrons here.

Because of the fact that BioWare made a rat blueprint with the COMMONER faction... its a safe bet to NOT attack rats that highlight BLUE, unless you are absolutely sure (ie. Elysia farm quests).

One of my DMs was doing a rat mini-plot on Tairis'nadur one time... and accidentally spawned some of the faction commoner ones... poor player was hated by every last commoner, and guard on the server...

-Themicles

Anyway, I now know that when in Deglos, open nothing, kill nothing that does not attack you and make the halfling walk through the door first.

Why would you kill 'things' that do not attack you in the first place

Xoc wrote:

Anyway, I now know that when in Deglos, open nothing, kill nothing that does not attack you and make the halfling walk through the door first.

Why would you kill 'things' that do not attack you in the first place

Because it was a rat, vermin, my character hates rats. The time before I was there and the rats were blue then the ogre started laying into them and I helped him. No problem. This time however.

Besides, a deer may not attack me (before I start a whole debate with the local tree huggers note I said may, my character has never done this) but I could still kill it for it's meat and hide. I would cook (if this server has the mechanic) the meat to eat and cure the hide to make into armour that I would sell.

In the real world cockroaches don't attack me but I kill them on sight so they don't lay eggs in my cupboards and build nests in my walls. It's all about the role play. Thats why I may have reason to attack something that is not overtly hostile.

The last time I encountered those rats they were NOT a part of the commoner faction. I have been killing rats from Mikona to Deglos via Elysia without incident. I didn't realise these particular rodents had gained citizenship (note to self - pay more attention to Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy).

Anyway, you, me and anyone else reading this thread knows about those particular rats. The question is what about those who don't.

Yes... place a sign at the rats

Regarding the deer... my character would join you in the hunt if its done right (!!). And he is a sort of tree hugger.

One thing that once happened to me was trying to open some doors in derome delem and guess what... one was locked... so no big deal... i walk away, but my BEAR familiar decides we're not finished there and chops the door down. So far so good. Tha BAD part was that after that whole deglos was hostile towards me

Themicles wrote:...its a safe bet to NOT attack rats that highlight BLUE, unless you are absolutely sure (ie. Elysia farm quests)

Sure...but since some weeks it turns the dog around the Elf Gate hostile.

KTA

Khaelindra wrote:

KTA wrote:

Mooge wrote:Visit 2: I kill a rat and find that due to some messed up faction memberships the whole of Deglos is hostile.

LMAO!

KTA

This almost messed up a big plot already...a character kills a rat on the way to the ferry-Ogre and the whole town goes hostile including him. It is then you realize that the connection between the two part of Deglos is very spurious indeed. Unless i'm mistaken, you can block your entry to the entire main body of deglos by antagonizing the ogre ferryman, or even block it for all other players by killing him, correct? There is no (perhaps long) walkaround?

M.

actually from Zural Dural you can walk directly to Derem Delome without ever having to leave Deglos. it's about a 10-12 map jaunt through some hostile areas though..

but it can be done.. even solo.. trust me on that..

KTA wrote:Sure...but since some weeks it turns the dog around the Elf Gate hostile.

actually in Elysia the rats are of faction ANIMAL, just like all the dogs and birds. so if you kill a rat within sight of a dog , th dog will become hostile to you. and if you haven't noticed already, the Titanea Fairies love animals...

*thinks* Well i think i know one way without leaving deglos now that you mention it... but it does include something else than walking Hmm... need to check that out

Mooge wrote:Visit 3: While smelting ore in the Mining Temple in Urbaz I find myself one ingot short of making a suit of chainmail. Being a worshipper of Fegell and spying many chests full of Iron Ore I assumed it was there for the use of the devout. I take two lumps of ore, planning to grab some to replace it when I return with a full load of copper, then lo and behold the Clerics of Fegell all rush me proclaiming me a thief!.

There is a solution to this problem but you must speak to someone in the temple. The name of that someone escapes me, but he will sign you in.

Vichan Lyonsen wrote:

Mooge wrote:Visit 3: While smelting ore in the Mining Temple in Urbaz I find myself one ingot short of making a suit of chainmail. Being a worshipper of Fegell and spying many chests full of Iron Ore I assumed it was there for the use of the devout. I take two lumps of ore, planning to grab some to replace it when I return with a full load of copper, then lo and behold the Clerics of Fegell all rush me proclaiming me a thief!.

There is a solution to this problem but you must speak to someone in the temple. The name of that someone escapes me, but he will sign you in.

Tha Boss be called as Bobbel

Thou shalt not steal tha ore!!!! Grrrr!

-Member of tha Mining Guild
-Member of tha Dwarf Brigade

EDIT: PS. If you see car parked, doors not locked, do you take it to yourself? No you don't. Same goes to chests... You must assume that they actually belong to someone and are NOT free for taking...

FFS I did not think I was stealing the damn ore. Hmm, public place, public anvil, public forge and a publically accessable chest full of ore next to it! I was half expecting to get charged some gp when I closed the chest much as you do when you use aforementioned forge and anvil. I did not expect to get attacked by every cleric in the place! Like I said before, and I am tired of repeating myself, I thought the ore was there to be used in the forges. For all I know players get gp for putting the ore in there, I wouldn't know for sure because there is nothing there explaining their purpose.

Churches lock their collection boxes, they don't leave the coins just sitting there. They also have a sign above them that says 'collection box' and maybe some blurb about the good and noble cause the money goes to. If chests are not to be opened then how come when I'm crafting in Bensil's workshop I see a stream of players walking in just to check the boxes and crate by the door without incident?

All I suggested was putting a sign up to explain why there are boxes of ore laying around or if they belong to someone maybe locking them or not leaving them in a public place. Don't do it, I don't care, maybe the next person will. Not my problem.

Grimm owes the Temple of Fegell a lump of iron ore (you'd think it was gold they way everyone is carrying on). He will leave it on the floor of the temple as soon as he can return and he won't be going near the chests again. In future I'll think twice before suggesting anything given the response.

Mooge wrote:FFS I did not think I was stealing the damn ore. Hmm, public place, public anvil, public forge and a publically accessable chest full of ore next to it!

Does this mean that if you see car parked in public place, then you can take it?

No, really. I understand the problem, and some signs would be good, but in general I think you should think situation more as "real situation"(IC), rather than expecting CODE(OOC) to work like it works in other places. If you in real life walk in to temple, you definately are not going to their chests, do you?

Mooge wrote:FFS I did not think I was stealing the damn ore. Hmm, public place, public anvil, public forge and a publically accessable chest full of ore next to it! I was half expecting to get charged some gp when I closed the chest much as you do when you use aforementioned forge and anvil...

For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I had a character that had the same thing happen to her. I don't think it's at all obvious that the clerics are "guarding" the ore or that taking it would be considered stealing, especially since in almost all of the rest of Avlis you can take anything that isn't nailed to the floor without anyone caring.

Okay, Okay... Put some signs or something in there. I get tired of healing those poor clerics. They seem to be damaged everytime I go there. Those kits cost me money!

KenLie wrote:Okay, Okay... Put some signs or something in there. I get tired of healing those poor clerics. They seem to be damaged everytime I go there. Those kits cost me money!

They might have attacked themselves I was in there the other day and all of a sudden Bobbel Brik (or whatever he's called) started laying into the other clerics! Wierd!


If you talk to Bobbel Brik, he does now talk about the ore, and how you can be a "member" (or whatver official jargon he uses). I found out the hard way though... but took it on the chin ICly. After all it was ore for free, what was I to expect!


Deglos is not Elysia - it is not newbie friendly. Partly because it is a newer server, but mainly because there already are many many newbie friendly places out there. Deglos, is one place (not the only one I might add) that still provides challenge, danger, excitment, etc.

If you kill a rat and the whole server goes ape on you, drink an invis potion and run, or log out for an hour or something. Maybe its a bug, maybe its intentional, e.g. the rats are the local food source for the goblins - and you've just killed someones dinner? Live with it. One thing for sure, you won't do it again.

KenLie wrote:Does this mean that if you see car parked in public place, then you can take it?

No, really. I understand the problem, and some signs would be good, but in general I think you should think situation more as "real situation"(IC), rather than expecting CODE(OOC) to work like it works in other places. If you in real life walk in to temple, you definately are not going to their chests, do you?

No, I wouldn't steal the car but thats because I know it belongs to someone else. Thats the real world, this is Neverwinter. Had it been PnP D&D I would have asked one of the clerics about the ore and they would have told me. They ain't programmed to do that though. Everything else around (the anvil at the door) and inside the temple is there for the use of crafters. There were no indications (locks, warnings signs, clerics telling you why the ore is there) to suggest that touching the ore is a hanging offence. I have played on other servers where characters not really interested in crafting can still work on farms / in mines and dump their produce into a granary / ore bin etc. They get a bit of coin and crafters can pay a nominal amout to pull the resources out of the bin rather than spend half an hour hitting rocks. I thought it might be something like that, turns out it wasn't. You analogy with car would be more accurately equated to a player corpse. You know it's the corpse of a player and the stuff on the body belongs to someone. Would I think looting the corpse is stealing?, yes. We are talking about a box of iron ore next to a forge in a temple to a crafting deity, for all I know it could be a gift from Fegell, some harvest festival or some sort of community farming thing. Heres a comparison for you. You go to the park and put a coin in one of the public barbeques, you have your own tongs and you have some meat and start cooking. You see a herb rack next to the barbecue, would you expect the park rangers to run up and club you to death the moment you pick up the oregano?

I went back to Urbaz tonight and nobody is hostile anymore although judging by the number of wounded clerics I found I get a sense that I may not be the only one to make this mistake. Either that or there are some really inept ore thieves in Deglos. Tonight however there was a gnome called Bobbel standing in the corner (I'm writing this for the benefit of folks who don't know about the mining guild). Why he wasn't there (killed?, hiding in a back room?) during my previous visit I don't know but sure enough you can sign up with him to join the miners guild. The deal as he explained it was that every time you go mining you drop 10 lumps of ore in the chests and in return you can access the ore without getting killed. Don't seem to balance in my mind (put 10 in, take 40 out) but hey, nuthin tae do wi'me. I joined and in three trips donated 35 lumps of ore, sadly none of these were counted for some reason and after being repeatedly told I had donated nothing and my membership might be revoked I quit the guild. There we go, thats what the ore is there for.