The World of Avlis

Ive looked around a bit but im not sure who a NE druid should follow. The character is really into spiders if that helps any. What gods do you think would work?

From the world info:

Not all gods on Avlis can produce druids. In fact relatively few can. They are: O'Ma, Dru'El, Pelar, Dre'Ana, Titania, Dagath, Skern, and Verossa.

Dagath entails Life, Death, and Rebirth - druids who worship the death aspect of Dagath are often evil.

If you want something more 'naturey,' Verossa is the goddess of natural destruction - her druids are evil, often CE.

Pelar is god of rangers and the hunt. Spiders are of course excellent predators. It's a bit of a stretch since Pelar is NG, though.

Hope that helps.

hmm Dagath is what i was leaning towards.

thanks

One of these days that list will be updated - Cha'reth also has druids, though all of his worshippers must be Good, so that's out for this character concept.

- Aloro

Deider wrote:Dagath entails Life, Death, and Rebirth - druids who worship the death aspect of Dagath are often evil.

I thought Druids were required to be the same alignment as their god, except in the case of Verossa because of the alignment restrictions in NWN.

Dagath is an exception to the standard worshipper-alignment rules. He takes worshippers of any alignments.

Aloro wrote:One of these days that list will be updated - Cha'reth also has druids, though all of his worshippers must be Good, so that's out for this character concept.

- Aloro

I've asked the Team for a status update on Cha'reth like ages ago. How far is it? Does he have something like a church already? Which alignments are allowed/mandatory for his druids (i expect NG of course, but given the as-it-is-rumoured soon-to-be lifted restriction on neutral component i'll not place heavy bets on it)? Does he already have a main temple/place of worship?

Hylia wrote:Dagath is an exception to the standard worshipper-alignment rules. He takes worshippers of any alignments.

I thought druids were more like clerics in that they had to be the same alignment as the deity. What you're saying is that I could make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath, and I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon.

Khaelindra wrote:I've asked the Team for a status update on Cha'reth like ages ago. How far is it? Does he have something like a church already? Which alignments are allowed/mandatory for his druids (i expect NG of course, but given the as-it-is-rumoured soon-to-be lifted restriction on neutral component i'll not place heavy bets on it)? Does he already have a main temple/place of worship?

OK, here's what exists now. There's a writeup for Cha'reth which details his spheres of influence and worshipper restrictions, which is hot off the presses (just posted).

The church is very loose and based on everyone finding their own path to service - he's a VERY chaotic god. There are two proper shrines (in Western T'Nanshi and Le'Or) so far, and there are plans to add more. Cha'reth is CG, and allows worshippers of any good alignment. Divine magic casters are supposed to have the exact alignment of their deity, so when the alignment restrictions are working properly Cha'reth's druids will be CG. For now, NG is fine.

I thought druids were more like clerics in that they had to be the same alignment as the deity. What you're saying is that I could make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath, and I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon.

This is correct. Dagath is the only exception to the divine caster alignment restriction. Because of his triple nature (Life/Death/Rebirth), he has clerics (and druids) of all alignments.

- Aloro

Aloro wrote:

I thought druids were more like clerics in that they had to be the same alignment as the deity. What you're saying is that I could make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath, and I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon.

This is correct. Dagath is the only exception to the divine caster alignment restriction. Because of his triple nature (Life/Death/Rebirth), he has clerics (and druids) of all alignments.

Forgive me for keeping on this... I can make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath and that is acceptable? I ask because I wanted to do this awhile back, but I thought I read somewhere else that this was not allowed.

Deider wrote:From the world info:

If you want something more 'naturey,' Verossa is the goddess of natural destruction - her druids are evil, often CE.

Druids can't be CE, they have to be NE or CN. Verossa's entry for "worshippers" on the deity chart says "Any CN", but I'm pretty sure the NE druids I've seen worship Verossa anyway, and if I recall wasn't Verossa added to the list so evil druids had someone to worship?

Maelstrom76 wrote:

Aloro wrote:

I thought druids were more like clerics in that they had to be the same alignment as the deity. What you're saying is that I could make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath, and I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon.

This is correct. Dagath is the only exception to the divine caster alignment restriction. Because of his triple nature (Life/Death/Rebirth), he has clerics (and druids) of all alignments.

Forgive me for keeping on this... I can make a Lawful Neutral druid of Dagath and that is acceptable? I ask because I wanted to do this awhile back, but I thought I read somewhere else that this was not allowed.

Indeed. There was a lengthy discussion on this, and in the end the conclusion was that, as it stands now, there are no gods that allow for LN druids on AVLIS at this moment. It would be nice to have a "definitive" statement about this, perhaps in the section on gods in the World Information, because it seems this question keeps popping up and is answered in various ways each time it is asked.

Thanks for the lead on Cha'Reth!

M.

makeshiftwings wrote:

Deider wrote:From the world info:

If you want something more 'naturey,' Verossa is the goddess of natural destruction - her druids are evil, often CE.

Druids can't be CE, they have to be NE or CN. Verossa's entry for "worshippers" on the deity chart says "Any CN", but I'm pretty sure the NE druids I've seen worship Verossa anyway, and if I recall wasn't Verossa added to the list so evil druids had someone to worship?

I may be wrong in this, but I believe there was an intended change so that the gods/goddesses who support druids can have worshippers of the same alignment, ie....CE Verossa could thereby have CE druids.

1. Dagath clerics can be of any alignment, that has been established quite clearly in the past by Orleron, no debate. I'd say that to Dagath druids applies the same reasoning, since druids and clerics are very much alike in how they get their spells and such in Avlis.

2. Avlis should be able to support CE druids, so druids of Verossa should be CE and nothing else. However, between should and is there's a barrier. The current haks have that unlocking of the other alignments for druids included, but this produced the "can't level my druid unless he's LN" bug (see the bug reports forum). This should be fixed in the next hak release.

In that old discussion, the decision that LN wasn't allowed was based on the assumption that Dagath's orders have specific preferred alignments, and a druid should match those. However, Dagath's orders do not have any restrictions other than (life=good, death=evil, rebirth=neutral). So a lawful neutral druid could be part of the Order of Rebirth. This alignment makes sense to me for the worship of Dagath, as it would represent a very strict devotion to the natural cycle.

[Ya beat me to it, Sindol]

Ok, clear.

Thanks!

The first person to summarize this whole druid alignment thing into a nice paragraph that I can add to the Player's Guide gets the passwords to Gnomeworld and a pair of Boots of Gnomish Speed to use there.

Hylia wrote:In that old discussion, the decision that LN wasn't allowed was based on the assumption that Dagath's orders have specific preferred alignments, and a druid should match those. However, Dagath's orders do not have any restrictions other than (life=good, death=evil, rebirth=neutral). So a lawful neutral druid could be part of the Order of Rebirth. This alignment makes sense to me for the worship of Dagath, as it would represent a very strict devotion to the natural cycle.

[Ya beat me to it, Sindol]

Aloro wrote this in another thread.

Aloro wrote:

kagouro2003 wrote:If Elysium is O'Ma Domain what am I doing there? When am I going to meet Dagath after Death? When will he take care of us, his loyal subjects and followers? What sort of Rebirth God is he if I have to ask another one to bring me back to Life?

I know it's a matter of alignment, I am not dumb. I was just hoping for a little more elaboration, as this is a rare but existing case. Perhaps an easier, not rewarding, way out? Perhaps an automatic rebirth for us Dagath priests? (NO! NOT ALL OF YOU AT ONCE! ONE AT A TIME! HEY! WATCH IT WITH THOSE EGGS! OUCH! OUCH! )

Err... yes, it's simply a matter of alignment.

The gods, including Dagath, send the souls of their worshippers upon death to the Outer Plane that most closely matches their outlook on life. Because your character has a different perspective than Dagath, she goes to a plane that is not His. If anything, this tells you your cleric's alignment should probably be changed... because it does not match her deity. Were she going to the Outlands of Concordant Opposition (True Neutral), she'd visit Dagath's Halls as she wishes. She's instead going where her actions have taken her, which is O'Ma's domain.

I'm not trying to scold you - but you have read Orl's post about clerics and deities, right? A cleric should always strive to EXACTLY match his or her deity's alignment. You are allowed to temporarily be as much as one step away on the law/chaos axis, but should strive to fix that ASAP. It sounds to me like your cleric is asking the world and the gods to change to suit her, when in fact it should be the other way around.

In Elysium, you're required to do something to please O'Ma. This does not require worship, nor interfere with any religious obligations to other deities. I think it is appropriate as it exists now.

And no, Clerics of Dagath will not get a free ride, sorry.

- Aloro

What Aloro wrote makes sense to me. According to this it would mean that all dagathites should be true neutral what ever order they are in. If one ends in another Death plane than the god she/he worships she/he does not serve the right god.

My character Aqua is true neutral and met Dagath in her death plane for the first time. She choosed the Order of Rebirth because it made sense to her but she could have chosen one of the other orders too. In fact she could change order in the future and I don't foresee to switch her alignment to do so.

Just my 2 cents.

on a related note, if a cleric of Dagath does the Order of Death or Life quest in Mikona, they won't be Neutral anymore. Problem, no?

*uses the search function the way it is meant to*

viewtopic.php?t=23633

Sindol wrote:*uses the search function the way it is meant to*

viewtopic.php?t=23633

Arggg ! I did not read the last posts in the thread. Sorry about that. And thank you Sindol.

Tangleroot wrote:on a related note, if a cleric of Dagath does the Order of Death or Life quest in Mikona, they won't be Neutral anymore. Problem, no?

Well they might become netural good, but that quest effects the good/evil access... And Dagath allows for good clerics. So I don't see this as a problem.

Ah, that was relation to what I just read, Dagath requiring TN druids, but it was apparently a misinterpretation.

Tangleroot wrote:Dagath requiring TN druids, but it was apparently a misinterpretation.

Yes it was Dagath is different from most other gods, as his priests, be they cleric or druid, can be of any alignment. One could argue that this is because Dagath himself is rather unbalanced mentally. But I won't go there.

Druids like clerics on Avlis must have their alignment match that of their patron/matron deity. There are several gods that can allow druids, and they are the following:

Deity/alignment

Dru'El, CG
O'Ma, NG
Dre'Ana, NG
Pelar, NG
Skern, TN
Verossa, CE
Titanea, TN
Dagath, TN (but druids may be any)
Cha'reth, CG

Druids who do not match their deities alignment should not have access to divine spells or any other druid powers, though my guess is that game engine limitations do not allow this penalty to occur. Druids of Dagath can be of any alignment, but should probably be good if they wish to belong to the Order of Life, neutral if the order of rebirth, evil for the order of death. Druids of Dru'El, Verossa, and Cha'reth cannot pick their deities alignment from the character selection screen and still level up as druids. Most of the advice I have heard from the team says that if you wish to play a druid from one of these gods, pick a neutral alignment one step removed (e.g., if you are a druid of Dru'El, select either NG or CN).

It sounds like with the next hak that these restrictions will be removed, and druids of a non-neutral (in some aspect) god will be able to level properly. Currently, there is a bug which does not allow druids of ANY alignment to level, unless they are LN. Most DM's seem more than willing to help people out with this issue if they are on when you need to level.

That's all I know.