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what is the role of a cleric?

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what is the role of a cleric?

PostAuthor: deadshot » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:29 am

im still kinda new to alvis, only been here a couple of months and was wondering what is the role of the cleric in a party sence? everyone uses healing kits to heal and with the exp pently so high
for being raised no one wants to take the hit and would rather run back to there bodies.i dont know if this has been mentioned before but how about setting it so that if you are raised by a cleric the exp hit is not so high?it seems that i am just a buffing machine.
rp a cleric on avlis is great with all the diffrent gods and such but being a good aliment cleric im not supposed to use any negitive spells so half of the cleric offence spells i can not use as a friendly dm *smile* politly pointed out awhile back.so i am just wondering what is the role of a cleric?
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PostAuthor: Jonezie » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:41 am

This is more of a GD type question - so discuss away.

Also, if you're not a member of the Clerics forum, you might want to consider signing up. There's lots of good and useful stuff in there :D
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PostAuthor: Naieth » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:48 am

First of all, welcome to Avlis :D .

Secondly, perhaps this helps you. A question was asked in the Cleric Forums to those who play clerics, using rough steriotypes to describe;

What type of cleric is your character?

Battle Priest:
High STR/CON
Typical feats Martial, Combat Casting, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, etc.
The tank that likes buffs.

Casting Cleric:
High WIS
Typical feats Extend, Empower, Maximize, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration
Lots and lots of spells from the back of the group.

Holy Ranger:
High WIS
Typical feats Zen Archery, point black shot, rapid shot, improve critical (longbow or similiar), Weapon focus (longbow)
Peppers the enemy with ranged attacks and summons creatures to hold them at bay.

Finesse Evangelist:
High DEX
Typical feats Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting (usually from Ranger levels), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Dodge, Weapon Finesse
These are rare but, I've heard, can be enjoyable to play.

Undeath Hunter:
High CHA
Typical Feats Extra Turning, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Martial, Weapon Focus (Warhammer or similiar)
Te undeath killing machine. Lots of points in heal.


With a fair number of votes, the end results were

Battle Priest 58%
Casting Cleric 26%
Holy Ranger 2%
Finesse Evangelist 2%
Undeath Hunter 10%
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PostAuthor: Naieth » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:56 am

As for myself, I play a cleric 14/fighter 6 with a lot of combat feats and maxed Heal skill, with many buffs each day. I find it depending on what kind of party I play in, as well as the overall party level. I can frontline, guard the rear, be assigned to healer duty, go for enemy mages using stealth mode..

A few things to note;
- Parties love getting buffs, expecially the militant classes ( for more info click here http://www.avlis.org/wiki/index.php/Shs ... el_Bonuses ). Being a buffer makes people love you. Being a healer is appreciated.. vast difference between some guy slapping healing kit on you when bleeding, or having a Heal spell cast bringing you into a more safe situation.
- Stat, Feat selection, and clerical domains closen play a large pointer towards which road you can go.
- Overall, clerics are very versatile to play, and I can assure you, there is a place for them, even with lesser need for healing and raises.

Hope that helps. :)
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PostAuthor: Alphonse » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:01 am

They're also useful in DMed events.

I've lost track of the number of times Al has prayed to Dagath, about the soul of someone who died, and been granted some knowledge of it, or remembered some dagathite scriptures that have helped the situation.

The important thing is to RP the clericyness of the character. You'll get far more out of it this way than if you treat the class as the equivalent of a once per day potion dispenser. :D
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PostAuthor: Naieth » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:09 am

Very well said. Being a priestess (or priest) of your deity makes you a vehicle for sweet roleplaying. Really, I love this aspect of clerics.
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PostAuthor: spokeydonkey » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:22 am

Three words:

Walking healing dispenser.

Yes, that's sarcasm.
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PostAuthor: pincushionman » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:15 pm

Another four words:

Turn Undead. Mass Heal.
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PostAuthor: Krator » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm

To bless the party just before the real stuff happens.

To bless the party just before disbanding.
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PostAuthor: Vroshgrak » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:49 pm

I like the idea that if clerics cast Resurrection you'd get back 50% of the XP you lost. Raise dead you could get back 25%, but if its from a scroll or wand you have to bite the bullet.
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PostAuthor: Red » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:03 pm

Vroshgrak wrote:I like the idea that if clerics cast Resurrection you'd get back 50% of the XP you lost. Raise dead you could get back 25%, but if its from a scroll or wand you have to bite the bullet.

Such an idea would raise the cleric's value as a party member.

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PostAuthor: Tigg » Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:08 pm

Clerics can do it all- they can buff, they can heal, they can fight, they can summon... in avlis raising the dead isn't their main role but it's only one spell out of everything they can do.

I'm not sure what spells the DM was referring to.. but to me 'negative' spells sound like things like energy drain and cause wounds. That still leaves most of the best offensive cleric spells: flame strike, hammer of the gods, searing light, sunbeam, word of faith, firestorm, blade barrier. Even if, let's say you decide not to use implosion or storm of vengeance for an RP reason, there still are some good offensive spells to use. But, clerics aren't mages when it comes to that, nor are they supposed to be.
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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:29 pm

Really, your role depends on how you design your character.

As the above list shows, battle priest is the most common. You wont hit as hard as a fighter, but you should have a better AC and a lot of survivability.

You also have a lot of buffs that other people will want. Mages are great at self buffing, but a cleric has some really neat things like bless, negative energy protection, Deathward that will help other party members.

Against undead, you will be very effective, both offensively and defensively, regardless of build. Mass heal is a great spells to mess up a group of undead. Sunbeam, I never use, as it's party unfriendly and tends to blind your allies.

Offensively, Hammer of the gods is a great spell, Word of faith too. Firestorm doesnt have a huge damage max, but it is party friendly with a big area, so always memorise some of those at 8th level. Blade barrier is a damn good spell, if you can rely on the party to let the enemy run at you across it instead of charging across it themselves (always irritating when they do that after you place it perfectly :lol: ). Implosion is powerful in it's way, but far too likely to kill a friend (or the caster) due to its short range and unfriendly nature. Storm of vengeance is an awesome spell when it works (I love it) but it often won't work in lag (or at all on wilderness). Trying to be a mage, doesn't seem too viable to me due to the limited number of offensive spells at most levels, but you can still add some extra ranged damage with it before rushing in.

Finally, healing. When an epic character with 200+ hp is knocked down in a fight, because something was hitting him for 50 hp a go, getting up on 10 hits from a heal kit is not great. Heal, mass heal and greater restoration, all get him to his feet on full hit points with a decent chance to get clear. Mass heal can repair your whole front line and the caster if you time it right.
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PostAuthor: Spartan » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:22 pm

I find clerics don't preach about their god enough.
I enjoy seeing clerics act like jerks ALWAYS talking about how great their god is or how everyone should pray to her or be a cleric.
Seems to take away from the class when someone plays their cleric like a fighter with spells.
Or a level 20 cleric tells you they don't know who their characters god is, they haven't picked one yet.
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PostAuthor: Micah » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:28 pm

Cleric are hot... absolutely hot. They have, imho, the 4 most powerful spells in the game and party friendly or not a hardcore caster cleric will be able to kill just about anything in one shot (DC 43 implosion, anybody?). Fighter/Clerics are nasty in that they have the access to the buffs for both weapons and armor, and they are self contained healers, but the low number of feats means that they have to give up a ton of their casting to do this. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I sort of agree with Spartan that building a cleric just to be uber in melee is weak - you build clerics to play priest or to have that wisdom and introspection that one might have when touched directly by a divine being. Then if you want to pick up your sword and use that introspection to smash stuff sure... but do it in this order not the other way around!
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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:17 am

Micah Ormane wrote:hardcore caster cleric will be able to kill just about anything in one shot (DC 43 implosion, anybody?)


:?

*Wonders how many Clerics micah knows who put 3 feats into getting epic spell focus for the sake of one spell and also have 40 wisdom*
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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:22 am

Spartan wrote:Or a level 20 cleric tells you they don't know who their characters god is, they haven't picked one yet.


Thats a pretty sad thing to hear, even from a level 1 cleric
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PostAuthor: Rhissaerk Jalesh » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:38 am

*Wonders how many Clerics micah knows who put 3 feats into getting epic spell focus for the sake of one spell and also have 40 wisdom*


Actually, those three feats have alot more use then just Implosion. Hammer of the Gods, Firestorm, Flamestrike, Blade Barrier, even Soundburst, all benefit from those feats. Heck, it's worth it for the Hammer of the Gods bonus alone, as that spell is freaking deadly vs anything that can be effected with mind spells. Firestorm has no damage cap (it says it does, but it doesn't) so the more cleric levels you take, the better that gets. Implosion is just a nice bonus. Caster clerics can do great with a little evocation focus...
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PostAuthor: Pathos Street » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:39 am

gwydion2 wrote:
Micah Ormane wrote:hardcore caster cleric will be able to kill just about anything in one shot (DC 43 implosion, anybody?)


:?

*Wonders how many Clerics micah knows who put 3 feats into getting epic spell focus for the sake of one spell and also have 40 wisdom*


One spell? What about sunbeam, fire storm, word of faith, earthquake, and flame strike? Not to mention domain spells like chain lightning and ice storm. Clerics make pretty darn good evokers! :D
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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:08 am

Sunbeam and earthquake are poor, due to party unfriendlyness and I can't imagine why anyone would use earthquake for its sad 10d6 damage in any case. Sunbeam is a pale shadow of the mage spell sunburst. Word of faith doesn't need a good DC for its primary use, which is to temporarily blind an opponent, so no point taking spell focus for it. Never been too fussed on flamestrike myself, but I guess some people like it, quite odd in that half the damage is party friendly, half isn't. Firestorm I do like, as I already said, not a huge damage max but a good area.

I'd certainly agree that air and magic are good domains if you want to play a caster cleric though.
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PostAuthor: chilingsworth » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:01 am

Grag's a cleric who's focus got changed (severly) midstream He started as a fighting cleric (and worshipped Maleki) but, much to my surprize, ended up on a path that's lead him to Cha'reth and a role as more of a caster cleric. In battles he's just in back of the fighters, patching them up as they get wounded, buffing, and casting restorative spells. When not in combat, he's making massive stores of healing kits. And for RP: well... he's a cleric of Cha'reth... his doamins (as I started him worshiping Maleki and before the domain lists were really formalized) are Death and Trickery. More importantly-- He Pulls it Off. as for the raise problem... *kisses his ticket to Arborea*
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PostAuthor: chilingsworth » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:03 am

gwydion2 wrote:
Spartan wrote:Or a level 20 cleric tells you they don't know who their characters god is, they haven't picked one yet.


Thats a pretty sad thing to hear, even from a level 1 cleric


Oh, and +1
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pstanton wrote:I think it is time to stop bickering like children and find a way to release Gurth from the Seal in such a way that people like Grag don't have collective heart failure.

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PostAuthor: tygermoon » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 am

I think the best things about clerics is two fold: One their sheer RP value in a world like Avlis, and two, their usefulness to parties and plots. :)

Clerics need to play up their uniqueness... which is their divine connection to their diety. I mean, come on! :) To be able to actually communicate through prayer to a divinity and have the prayers answered? To hear/feel/sense the diety around you?

Not to mention being the wise one... I'm maxing out, for my character, based on her domains and diety, Heal and wisdom and persuade. Along with some points here and there in spellcraft, lore. Anyway, she can do some pretty amazing things, in my opinion... :) I have a blast playing my cleric, and after all, isn't that the point?

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PostAuthor: Ghostie » Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:43 pm

chilingsworth wrote:
gwydion2 wrote:
Spartan wrote:Or a level 20 cleric tells you they don't know who their characters god is, they haven't picked one yet.


Thats a pretty sad thing to hear, even from a level 1 cleric


Oh, and +1


I think Kis was level 3 cleric before she had a god, but to be honest I had IC reasons for knowing some priesty type spells before she was an official priestess. Depends on the circumstances.
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PostAuthor: Micah » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:56 pm

I for one enjoy party unfriendly spells...adds some flavor and requires a bit of ingenuity and skill to use.

gwydion2 wrote:Sunbeam and earthquake are poor, due to party unfriendlyness and I can't imagine why anyone would use earthquake for its sad 10d6 damage in any case. Sunbeam is a pale shadow of the mage spell sunburst. Word of faith doesn't need a good DC for its primary use, which is to temporarily blind an opponent, so no point taking spell focus for it. Never been too fussed on flamestrike myself, but I guess some people like it, quite odd in that half the damage is party friendly, half isn't. Firestorm I do like, as I already said, not a huge damage max but a good area.

I'd certainly agree that air and magic are good domains if you want to play a caster cleric though.
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