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armor skin and dodge?

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armor skin and dodge?

PostAuthor: downsystem » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:56 pm

I would like to know how high you can stack armor skin, also does taking that feat protect you from the ranged touch attacks that so meny monsters seem to use.

Also i would like to know how high dodge AC. I read in the book its like 10. Is this correct Does raising dodge protect you against the ranged touch attacks?
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PostAuthor: Zadious » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:09 am

Armor Skin is a one-time feat that adds +2 to your natural armor.

i.e. if your nekkid AC is ten, taking Armor Skin makes your nekkid AC = 12.

As for dodge bonuses, I think it's still capped at +10. Could be wrong on that one, though.
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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am

Dodge bonus is not capped at 10.

I can tell...
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one said they add up

PostAuthor: downsystem » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:11 am

From back when some one said you could stack the armor skin feats as you get them and they add up.
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Re: one said they add up

PostAuthor: TheElvenKing » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:52 am

downsystem wrote:From back when some one said you could stack the armor skin feats as you get them and they add up.


There is only one armour skin feat, and it gives an AC bonus of +2 to your character sheet. Once taken, it can never be taken again... so no stacking available of that particular feat. :wink:

However, Armour Skin does stack with other kinds of AC improvements and types, from natural to dodge to deflection, etc.
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PostAuthor: Chemical-Burn » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:48 am

So armor skin is NOT natural, deflection, or armor ac bonus?

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PostAuthor: Malathyre » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:50 am

Chemical-Burn wrote:So armor skin is NOT natural, deflection, or armor ac bonus?


No, it's sort of an innate bonus, just like that 10 you get at character creation.

I think Khaelindra is right in that Dodge bonuses are no longer capped at 10. I think they USED to be capped at 10 before SoU and HotU. Improved Expertise, unless I'm entirely mistaken, is a +10 dodge bonus, and it stacked quite nicely with other dodge bonuses my character had.
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PostAuthor: Defender » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:56 am

WOW... here is the quote from the instruction booklet that came with EVERYONES game.

ARMOR SKIN - The character gains a natural +2 bonus to armor class.
PREREQUISITE - 21 st level
USE - automatic

Yes, one time is ALL you get armor skin feat. If your in the least bit curious about a character build, there are a whole freakin ton of character build / arena servers out there, and alot of them allow you to import your own character.

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PostAuthor: mortzestus » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:15 am

Dodge bonuses to AC are capped at +20, even though neither Expertise nor Tumble count towards this cap.

About Armour Skin, i don't know if it counts for purposes of determining AC against touch attacks. It shouldn't work, since it's supposed to be natural AC but considering that in NWN this feat has been implemented as some sort of innate bonus, it probably works.
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PostAuthor: Soshus Eblum » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:27 am

Does the Bard song count towards the Dodge bonus cap as well?

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PostAuthor: mortzestus » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:30 am

Everything counts but the AC from the Tumble skill and the Expertise feats.
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kinda makes fighters crappy

PostAuthor: downsystem » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:34 am

Well since you cant stack that armor skin, that sort of makes fighters crappy, Since they dont have any way to increase their AC or avoid attacks like lets say a monk. wizard or a thief can. Someone told back when i asked other ? on this forum that armor skin stacked if you took it multiple times. Which i thought hey that make sense and give fighters some measure of AC protection when they get to epic level. So only way you can get a good high AC for a fighter is to get magical items, which any class can do. Parry doesnt work. So what i just rely on IMproved expertise and maybe a few tumble/ dodge AC improvements that takes for ever to get cause fighters dont get them as fast as a thief does. Ofcourse i guess you could add up the dex for improve ment but if you are looking to ware full plate.
WEll that seriously sucks armor skin doesnt stack.
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PostAuthor: Midknight » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:21 am

WEll that seriously sucks armor skin doesnt stack.


Technically, it does stack, as answered before. You just can't take it multiple times.

And yes, in the DnD system it appears nimble rogues can get much higher AC eventually than fighters... however, it does balance out in that the warrior doesn't crumple like a paper bag when hit.
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PostAuthor: Chemical-Burn » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:08 am

Midknight wrote:
WEll that seriously sucks armor skin doesnt stack.


Technically, it does stack, as answered before. You just can't take it multiple times.

And yes, in the DnD system it appears nimble rogues can get much higher AC eventually than fighters... however, it does balance out in that the warrior doesn't crumple like a paper bag when hit.


That natural DR feat probably best reflects this other then a high constitution thats required for it.. and that feat CAN be taken multiple times

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:56 am

Midknight wrote:And yes, in the DnD system it appears nimble rogues can get much higher AC eventually than fighters... however, it does balance out in that the warrior doesn't crumple like a paper bag when hit.


*chuckles about his lvl 13 brawler-monk with her 204 hp and DR 5/-* :twisted: 8)

Each brawler-class has their own way of not going down under blows.

Rogues/monks do it with nimbleness-AC;
Fighters do it with expertise-AC (and enough feats to take this as well as attack feats to make up for it) as well as having generally more hp;
Barbarians don't care about getting hit as they absorb damage and have huge hp.

Combinations taking the best of both worlds usually have a build-advantage (like fighters taking enough rogue-levels to profit from the nimbleness-AC, or fighters mixing with barbarian to take the DR-advantage, etc), but also the pure classes should manage.

In the end, when the dust settles, the naked monk/psion rules all as far as AC goes, and the pure monk when having the better forms of Avlis-gear.
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Re: kinda makes fighters crappy

PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:20 am

downsystem wrote:Well since you cant stack that armor skin, that sort of makes fighters crappy, Since they dont have any way to increase their AC or avoid attacks like lets say a monk. wizard or a thief can. Someone told back when i asked other ? on this forum that armor skin stacked if you took it multiple times. Which i thought hey that make sense and give fighters some measure of AC protection when they get to epic level. So only way you can get a good high AC for a fighter is to get magical items, which any class can do. Parry doesnt work. So what i just rely on IMproved expertise and maybe a few tumble/ dodge AC improvements that takes for ever to get cause fighters dont get them as fast as a thief does. Ofcourse i guess you could add up the dex for improve ment but if you are looking to ware full plate.
WEll that seriously sucks armor skin doesnt stack.


Well, someone told you something wrong .. or you mis-read it. Armor Skin does not stack with itself, because it can't be taken multiple times.

And, the bottom line is that in Bioware's version of NWN fighters are supposed to be wearing Plate +8 or something funky when they reach Epic levels.

So, yes a fighters AC is going to flatten out at very high level, which is why things like Expertise / Improved Expertise come in (a fighter has high AB so he can afford to waste some of these points). Other than that, high HP and DR. Although I know many mages that have both higher AC, HP and DR than my Epic Fighter :? Annoying isn't it?
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Re: kinda makes fighters crappy

PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:51 am

Dirk Cutlass wrote:Although I know many mages that have both higher AC, HP and DR than my Epic Fighter :? Annoying isn't it?


Right until the first disjunction or long-road-no-rest dungeon... 8)
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PostAuthor: chupacabra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:13 pm

Just wanted to mention not to forget discipline. Doesnt really matter if a fighter's ac is a few points less than a rogue or wizzies , if said rogue or wizzie is knocked down/ disarmed etc.

Generally 9 times out of 10 that Ive seen a rogue and fighter duel, the fighter knocks over and or disarms the rogue, and wins the fight. If a wiz can manage to get in some sort of mind affecting spell before being knocked over, they have a shot at winning, otherwise, same story. Thats assuming two chars of semi equal level and gear, etc.
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PostAuthor: Cindare » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:02 pm

Just to jump in, here are a few things that count toward your +20 Dodge AC cap...

+Dodge gear (duh...)
Haste (+4 Dodge)
Divine Shield feat
Epic Mage Armor (+5 Dodge)
Mage Armor (+1 Dodge)

Though I haven't found any specific data to support this, Armor Skin seems to fall into an "innate" AC category that does not fall under any of the five normal AC types (Armor, Shield, Deflection, Dodge, Natural). To the best of my knowledge, this "innate" AC has no cap. This also seems to hold true for certain +AC feats and PRC abilities, including the aforementioned Tumble and Expertise, but also bonuses from Dexterity (and Wisdom for Monks) and from Pale Master and Red Dragon Disciple classes.
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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:50 pm

I think it is natural armor, sadly...it doesn't stack with barkskin anymore...used to, but not since the last overhaul.
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PostAuthor: mortzestus » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:38 pm

Khaelindra wrote:I think it is natural armor, sadly...it doesn't stack with barkskin anymore...used to, but not since the last overhaul.


I just tested Armour Skin and the AC it provides definitely stacks with any source of natural AC: Shadowshield, Barkskin, amulets of natural armour, etc. I tried this both offline and in Avlis.

Nothing has changed about the feat.
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PostAuthor: Marleh » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:56 pm

Cindare wrote:Though I haven't found any specific data to support this, Armor Skin seems to fall into an "innate" AC category that does not fall under any of the five normal AC types (Armor, Shield, Deflection, Dodge, Natural). To the best of my knowledge, this "innate" AC has no cap. This also seems to hold true for certain +AC feats and PRC abilities, including the aforementioned Tumble and Expertise, but also bonuses from Dexterity (and Wisdom for Monks) and from Pale Master and Red Dragon Disciple classes.


Taken from another thread, with my emphasis:

Psyco wrote:There is some confusion around natural however as things like the epic feat armour skin say they give +2 to your natural armour, this is not the same as your armour bonus. Your natural armour is your 10 that you get when totally naked, if you take armour skin, that rises to 12. It in no way effects your natural armour bonus from things like an amulet of natural armour.
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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:41 pm

mortzestus wrote:
Khaelindra wrote:I think it is natural armor, sadly...it doesn't stack with barkskin anymore...used to, but not since the last overhaul.


I just tested Armour Skin and the AC it provides definitely stacks with any source of natural AC: Shadowshield, Barkskin, amulets of natural armour, etc. I tried this both offline and in Avlis.

Nothing has changed about the feat.


Ehm...yes...my fault...shouldn't alternately read topics on Flesh Armor and Armour Skin...:oops:

Armour Skin indeed simply ups your base AC from 10 to 12 so stacks with everything.
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PostAuthor: pincushionman » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:52 pm

So, taken another way, it is a natural AC bonus, as opposed to a Natural AC bonus.

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Epic skill focurs?

PostAuthor: downsystem » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:29 pm

OK i got a offshoot ? Is the epic skill focus ability one that stacks if you take that feat multiple times for the same skill? Also does it stack on the non epic skill focus if used on the same skill?
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