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Outlook on PW's in NWN2?

Polls for Avlis homepage.

How is your outlook on whether or not PW's will work well in NWN2?

Super! Thanks for asking!
11
6%
Optimistic
79
41%
Good, but not great
26
14%
Ok
12
6%
meh
20
10%
Pessimistic
26
14%
Atari needs to die, then maybe ok
17
9%
 
Total votes : 191

PostAuthor: girlysprite » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:49 am

No.
I'm going to buy it for the single player campaigns.
I enjoyed those a lot too in nwn1.
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PostAuthor: pincushionman » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:49 am

girlysprite wrote:Cant blame oblivion really. The PW community is miniscule, compared to games sold. There were quite some people downloading single player campaigns pr multiplayer campaigns to play over lan, but PW is just small.
thats just the sad truth. Oblivion arent assholes, its a compagny that has to make a game in a very limited timeframe for their actual targetgroup, which is not us.

You mean Obsidian. Oblivion is a cool other game.
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PostAuthor: chilingsworth » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:50 am

pincushionman wrote:
girlysprite wrote:Cant blame oblivion really. The PW community is miniscule, compared to games sold. There were quite some people downloading single player campaigns pr multiplayer campaigns to play over lan, but PW is just small.
thats just the sad truth. Oblivion arent assholes, its a compagny that has to make a game in a very limited timeframe for their actual targetgroup, which is not us.

You mean Obsidian. Oblivion is a cool other game.


Who says you can't blame oblivion?

I mean for instance, the oblivion that results from certain drug use... :wink:
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PostAuthor: markschouten » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:54 am

The Warcry thing made me a lot more pessimistic about NWN2.. I'll now simply adapt the "wait and see" approach. I will still buy it, if only to stimulate the possible development of NWN3.
The only real wish I have now is that they somehow include the streaming of walkmeshes into the game engine, and that they won't be too large.
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:20 am

I am still pissed that they are making it Broadband only.
FFS its just not avalible where I live.
Not Cable, not DSL, not WFI...just not avalible.
No projected time frame to get it either.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:13 am

Alexandru Stanicu wrote:I am still pissed that they are making it Broadband only.
FFS its just not avalible where I live.
Not Cable, not DSL, not WFI...just not avalible.
No projected time frame to get it either.



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PostAuthor: Themicles » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:42 am

To do the walkmeshes without requiring a seperate downloaded copy for the players, would basically require broadband for walkmesh streaming.

The problem with streaming? Potentially horrid load times.
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PostAuthor: PlasmaJohn » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:17 am

Themicles wrote:To do the walkmeshes without requiring a seperate downloaded copy for the players, would basically require broadband for walkmesh streaming.

If they're squirting across a bitmap, sure, but that's very naieve. Better would be to send vector outlines (shapes).

While cutting off the low bandwidth people is a concern, I'm far more worried about our uplink capacity. We do about 10-20Kb on avg. If the rumors are true we'd be pumping 50-100Kb. Well, trying to. That would saturate our link and most likely get us a few nastygrams from the ISP.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:24 am

PlasmaJohn wrote:While cutting off the low bandwidth people is a concern, I'm far more worried about our uplink capacity. We do about 10-20Kb on avg. If the rumors are true we'd be pumping 50-100Kb. Well, trying to. That would saturate our link and most likely get us a few nastygrams from the ISP.



Our ISP allows us to run a server like that because we have business class service. They had better not complain.
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PostAuthor: Crimzonfist » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:14 am

pincushionman wrote:
Unless the module would automatically stream to you when you connect to the server (like it does on Half-Life maps), it would be a really big hassle.


Would it be possible to have them download automatically like the windows updates do? So if you leave your computer on, when you get home they have already downloaded?
sorry if this is what streaming means


Alexandru Stanicu wrote:
I am still pissed that they are making it Broadband only.
FFS its just not avalible where I live.
Not Cable, not DSL, not WFI...just not avalible.
No projected time frame to get it either.


Can you get satilite TV? If so you should be able to get decent internet through them.
sorry if ffs or wfi means that
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:56 am

Can you get satilite TV? If so you should be able to get decent internet through them.


Sure its avalible... $699.99 upfront for equipment and set up and $69.99 a month for service.
Also, according to the provider, Satillite is usless for me:
Your satellite connection is optimized for surfing and routine internet usage. However, certain time-sensitive Internet applications (NetMeeting, NetPhone, some online games, and any application that connects to a virtual private network) won't perform their best over a satellite connection.
Any signal you send from your computer via satellite has to travel over 44,000 miles to space and back again in order to deliver your information, and because of this, satellite products have a degree of latency. Latency is the time it takes for a signal from your computer to reach its destination and then for the response to flow through the satellite back to your computer. Therefore, certain time-sensitive applications are not recommended for use with Satellite:

* Real-time online communication tools such as NetMeeting or NetPhone.
* Real-time online games that emphasize reaction time such as Quake, CounterStrike, Diablo, and EverQuest. NOTE: Online turn-based games such as card games or chess will play well on Satellite.
* Any application that connects to a Virtual Private Network (VPN) is not supported and will be very slow on Satellite.
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PostAuthor: TripleAught » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:41 pm

A Satellite Marketer wrote:Any signal you send from your computer via satellite has to travel over 44,000 miles to space and back again in order to deliver your information,


They are good. That sounds very impressive and imposing.

44,000 miles! They are amazing just to be able to do that at all.

:P
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PostAuthor: Ilsensine » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:37 pm

Walkmeshes will of course be smaller than the entire mod, at present it says "At least" the walkmesh will have to be downloaded...whats scaring most people would be the "At most" condition.

I'm assuming anything tileset based will not effect the walkmesh size, but I'm afraid that every 'build' done of the mod will issue a new version of the walkmesh, which means not only will we have to download a walkmesh fairly often, but its entirely likely the actual walkmesh wont even have changed.

So far as the broadband issue goes, its hardly surprising, and I'm willing to bet as games increase their content you will see more and more requireing this. Its just the nature of the beast
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PostAuthor: Crimzonfist » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:38 pm

Alexandru Stanicu wrote:
Sure its avalible... $699.99 upfront for equipment and set up and $69.99 a month for service.
Also, according to the provider, Satillite is usless for me:


Satilite TV wrote:
Real-time online games that emphasize reaction time such as Quake, CounterStrike, Diablo, and EverQuest. NOTE: Online turn-based games such as card games or chess will play well on Satellite.


That sucks :(
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PostAuthor: llhht » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:46 pm

yes, dial-up is a killer for me too
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PostAuthor: Themicles » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:23 pm

The sad thing is that there are other ways the exterior could've been done that can stream stuff like that quite efficiently. But that probably would've meant a seperate exterior engine.

The engine that comes to mind is Torque. I can tweak terrain on the fly while people are on the server, and it doesn't cause any serious problems. Mind you, Torque uses a totally different terrain engine, and way of determining walkability of a surface.
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PostAuthor: downsystem » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:03 pm

Alexandru Stanicu wrote:
Can you get satilite TV? If so you should be able to get decent internet through them.


Sure its avalible... $699.99 upfront for equipment and set up and $69.99 a month for service.
Also, according to the provider, Satillite is usless for me:
Your satellite connection is optimized for surfing and routine internet usage. However, certain time-sensitive Internet applications (NetMeeting, NetPhone, some online games, and any application that connects to a virtual private network) won't perform their best over a satellite connection.
Any signal you send from your computer via satellite has to travel over 44,000 miles to space and back again in order to deliver your information, and because of this, satellite products have a degree of latency. Latency is the time it takes for a signal from your computer to reach its destination and then for the response to flow through the satellite back to your computer. Therefore, certain time-sensitive applications are not recommended for use with Satellite:

* Real-time online communication tools such as NetMeeting or NetPhone.
* Real-time online games that emphasize reaction time such as Quake, CounterStrike, Diablo, and EverQuest. NOTE: Online turn-based games such as card games or chess will play well on Satellite.
* Any application that connects to a Virtual Private Network (VPN) is not supported and will be very slow on Satellite.



IEEE 802.16 provides up to 50 km (31 miles) of linear service area range and allows connectivity between users without a direct line of sight. Note that this should not be taken to mean that users 50 km (31 miles) away without line of sight will have connectivity. Practical limits from real world tests seem to be around "3 to 5 miles" (5 to 8 kilometers). The technology has been claimed to provide shared data rates up to 70 Mbit/s, which, according to WiMAX proponents, is enough bandwidth to simultaneously support more than 60 businesses with T1-type connectivity and well over a thousand homes at 1Mbit/s DSL-level connectivity. Real world tests, however, show practical maximum data rates between 500kbit/s and 2 Mbit/s, depending on conditions at a given site.

wikipedia link-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimax

This might be a little ways into the future but hopefully wimax internt will start giving you guys out in the middle of no ware a chance at high speed internet.
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:20 pm

Thats interesting! I am only about a mile from where the DSL and cable runs out...
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PostAuthor: Heronimous Fox » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:41 am

Nice hyjack :)
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PostAuthor: EvokedShade » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:52 pm

I went with Optamistic becuase I'd hope that Bioware would improve the PW portion of the game considering NWN was such a big hit twords PWs.

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PostAuthor: Themicles » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:37 am

EvokedShade wrote:I went with Optamistic becuase I'd hope that Bioware would improve the PW portion of the game considering NWN was such a big hit twords PWs.


BioWare has nothing to do with NWN2 except for having provided the base engine upon which Obsidian built NWN2 on. The most I'd say BioWare has had anyhting to do with NWN2 is maybe consulting.

EDIT: Correction, they also host Obsidian's NWN2 forums. This was a decision supposedly to help keep the community from splitting. I think Obsidian just got over their heads in forum assholes too quick with too little moderators to handle it. :roll:
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PostAuthor: EvokedShade » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:00 pm

Themicles wrote:
EvokedShade wrote:I went with Optamistic becuase I'd hope that Bioware would improve the PW portion of the game considering NWN was such a big hit twords PWs.


BioWare has nothing to do with NWN2 except for having provided the base engine upon which Obsidian built NWN2 on. The most I'd say BioWare has had anyhting to do with NWN2 is maybe consulting.

EDIT: Correction, they also host Obsidian's NWN2 forums. This was a decision supposedly to help keep the community from splitting. I think Obsidian just got over their heads in forum assholes too quick with too little moderators to handle it. :roll:


Ah thanks. I didnt know that. In that case.. I hope Obsidian gets their sh*t together :D
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PostAuthor: Bas-Postma » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:30 pm

I will buy NWN 2 for single player....Perhaps too for multiplayer. But then I still wish to keep on playing Avlis NWN1....Though choices :wallbash:
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PostAuthor: plap33 » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:06 am

could there be a way to make exteriors with tilesets and just bypass all of that walkmesh mumba jahumba?

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Well I'll buy it And Probable Shelf it too

PostAuthor: Triwise » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:17 pm

I loved NWN right from the minute I read the Box at my Local Future Shop Store (BEST BUY). I knew what my limitation where, with the toolset, I had a fair understanding of how much fun i could have with the game play.

Simply put, I don't get that feeling from NWN2. I don't like the sound of this World Map. I don't care about Graphic's, ((I Still play my Commodore 64 for the Summergames/Series)). I don't Like the sound of the Complexity of the toolset. I am no computer Scripter, I read all your Post about Gig this Meg that Size this Tranlate that.

I know One Thing, I can make World Maps with ease on NWN, Maps of Pure Beauty. I even *Whispers this and Prays* REcreated Avlis from just walking about it. Then Creating it with out using your haks, I have only the lay of the land not the look.
I did this for fun, just to see if I could.

*don't Worry guys I'll never post it to the Server* It's just for me not for them.**

(back to the Point) NWN2 sounds like an Early Migraine waiting to happen. I don't see anything easy about what there offering me.

NOr do I play anygame for it's Single player aspect. I still after this many years of Owning NWN, have not finished any chapters of the games.

NWN Was easy for Any Jokster/Jackass to Fool around with the Toolset and still have fun. NWN2 sounds like i will need Computer Scripting and Graphic Lessons just to get the concept of the revamped Toolset. I see no fun in that. I hope I'm Wrong.

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