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Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusionist

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Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusionist

PostAuthor: Jazz » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:30 pm

Can someone in their own words explain to me the mechanics behind the AMS: Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusionist? The Wiki is unclear for me.
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: Sephira » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:27 pm

Shadow Matter Illusion
Essentially: injecting Shadow Matter, that is stuff from the Shadow Plane, into your Illusion spells to give it extra power, physical weight, and "reality"
That's the first half: making your Illusion spells better by adding something into it that can make it more real to your victim target. The other half, once you've started experimenting with Shadowstuff, is to find ways to inject into more of your spells, so you start converting Conjuration and Evocation spells into Illusory ones. If you don't know much about spell schools that might sound weird, but basically it means that instead of creating a very real Fireball out of the usual arcane energy, you fake one with Illusory magic. Except that a Shadow Matter Illusionist then injects it with their Shadowstuff, making it more real and hit harder than the real thing from a regular mage would. Higher ranks in SMI means converting and injecting higher spell levels, in increments of 3, as well as hitting harder and making it harder to disbelieve i.e. save against. By rank 3, even arcane training can't help in your victim target's defense, and they lose their spellcraft bonus to their save.
Side effects include: frequent jaunts into the Plane of Shadow up to and including building a summer home there.

Fatespinning
Basically, you're like Scarlet Witch (from the comics, not the movies!) or a wizard from Mage: The Ascension. You manipulate probability. How that's done, I don't really know. I've been assuming it's basically the logical progression of extreme Divination study. Once you start with the magnifying glass, you want to progress to a microscope, and before you know it you're building Fantasy-CERN under the Wastelands.
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: Jazz » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:16 pm

Thanks, Seph, that was a good explanation.

Shadow Matter Illusionist:
Do evocation and conjuration get a Disbelief check now? If so, does that mean their usual save is still there, or is it removed? And do the bonus apply to these schools as well?

Fatespinner:
What's being rerolled? The die if your enemy makes a save vs the DC of your spell? Or do you get to reroll... something... no idea what or when?
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: SakanaUshi » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:26 am

Just a lowly SMI rank 2 with Vincent, but I've done some extensive experimenting, and the mechanics seem to be summed up thusly:
  • Each rank of SMI converts three levels of spells
  • Affected Evocation and Conjuration spells use your Illusion stats (Epic Spell Focus: Illusion then applies to all three schools if you have it)
  • All spells with damage caps have their caps raised by X0% rounded up (X=rank). So, Fireballs do 11d6 at Rank 1, and 13d6 at Rank 3
  • Any spells that get a damage boost also get a disbelief check. This is in addition to any listed saving throws. Disbelief reduces the damage taken only, and Epic Spell Focus Illusion makes it so a successful disbelief check only reduces the damage by half.
  • Spells like Magic Missile get extra missiles, and each missile gets its own disbelief check.
  • Spells that do not get a damage boost still can benefit from increased spell DC.
  • Illusion spell DC applies to evocation and conjuration wands and scrolls as well (I like this part)
  • Increased damage and disbelief checks do not apply to wands crafted or used.
  • Rank 2 gives +2 to disbelief DC, and Rank 3 gives +2 to DCs (not sure if this applies to schools other than the three discussed)

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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: Plethora » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:11 am

Jazz wrote:
Fatespinner:
What's being rerolled? The die if your enemy makes a save vs the DC of your spell? Or do you get to reroll... something... no idea what or when?


Saves are being rerolled I believe

Fatespinner
Arbiters of their own luck, Fatespinners are capable of manipulating the "spin" of objects to change the outcome of random events in their favor.

Ranks
1 - Allow reroll of saves on 1st - 3rd Level Spells
2 - Allow reroll of saves on 4th - 6th Level Spells, +1 DC on reroll
3 - Allow reroll of saves on 7th - 9th Level Spells, +2 DC on reroll, +1 Caster Level/Cap
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: Jazz » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:22 am

Thanks guys!

@Pleth: the savingthrow of the enemy that makes a successful save against your spell is being rerolled? I assume so, but confirmation would be nice.

@SakanaUshi: Those are some good observations, if you are certian of them, perhaps you could add them to the Wiki?
Adding a Disbelief check to your spells weaken them. Are the other bonus good enough to compensate for this, in your opinion, perhaps regarding your PC?
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:02 am

Jazz wrote:@Pleth: the savingthrow of the enemy that makes a successful save against your spell is being rerolled? I assume so, but confirmation would be nice.


Yes, so for example, this half elven bandit made her save on both rolls against Flame Arrow.

Half Elven Sorcerer : Reflex Save vs. Fire : *success* : (16 + 16 = 32 vs. DC: 28)
Half Elven Sorcerer : Reflex Save vs. Fire : *success* : (16 + 16 = 32 vs. DC: 31)

While this one failed the reroll and got burned.

Half Elven Sorcerer : Reflex Save vs. Fire : *success* : (18 + 16 = 34 vs. DC: 28)
Half Elven Sorcerer : Reflex Save vs. Fire : *failure* : (6 + 16 = 22 vs. DC: 31)

Somewhere on the boards here there was a thread about about the rerolls that went into much greater detail. I remember it, I don't remember what what written.
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: Jazz » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Thanks, GunnJ. Now all my questions have been answered.
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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: SakanaUshi » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:13 am

Jazz wrote:@SakanaUshi: Those are some good observations, if you are certian of them, perhaps you could add them to the Wiki?
Adding a Disbelief check to your spells weaken them. Are the other bonus good enough to compensate for this, in your opinion, perhaps regarding your PC?


First of all, I forgot one thing, since I haven't yet experienced it: at Rank 3 SMI, disbelief check ignores the spellcraft bonus to saves, apparently.

Vincent is currently a 4 Rogue 32 Wizard with a buffed INT of 46. His DCs are pretty disgusting already and they'll improve a bit more by the time he hits 40 (INT should be 48 by then). SMI Rank 3 should also bump DCs by 2.

In my experience, most trash mobs fail their saving throws except on a natural 20 most of the time at my current level. Disbelief is always a Will save, so only Divine casters, holy warriors, monks, and psions will consistently save in most situations. Most mobs are STR+CON beefcakes with no Will saves. Since I have Epic Spell Focus Illusion, saving reduces the damage by half, but at Rank 3 there will be a 30% increase in the damage, so it works out to 65% of base damage. I think that the times that I go "huh, my maximized fireball does 72 damage!" vastly outnumber the times when I go "huh, my maximized fireball only did 36 damage to that Elite Cleric who made his disbelief check." So yeah, the disbelief is occasionally annoying, but not crippling, and the extra damage is nice.

But I think the best part about my path, chosen somewhat naively and without knowing the details I've listed, is that the damage hasn't been the best part after all. For me, the best part is applying my Epic Spell Focus Illusion to all Evocation and Conjuration spells, even on wands. I like making wands, and I really like making wands with a DC around 40... and once I get Rank 3, they should be even higher.

As for the Wiki, I had originally assumed that the information on the Wiki was the information the team wanted to have available, and that some of the details were meant to be FOIG or something. Also, I never edit wikis and I fear screwing it up.

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Re: Question regarding Fatespinner & Shadow Matter Illusioni

PostAuthor: amirah » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:31 am

Thanks for post! i have cleared my doubt.

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