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Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

General discussion about Avlis

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Should cookies count toward your weekly XP cap?

Yes, they're delicious but should count
20
35%
No, keep your hands off my cookies
37
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Total votes : 57

Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:07 pm

*deleted the post out of respect of the thread by me*
Last edited by Xeo on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sunscream » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:08 pm

I think I see where the misunderstanding lies.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Zerub » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:09 pm

I don't feel at all that cookies should come off of the cap. That being said, if they did, it would not bother me much though.

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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: dashdot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:10 pm

Sunscream wrote:I think I see where the misunderstanding lies.


+10,000.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: avliswebadmin » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:17 pm

Please keep the discussion civil so I don't have to lock the topic or boot the ones that can't keep it that way.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:20 pm

*deleted*
Last edited by Xeo on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:23 pm

avliswebadmin wrote:Please keep the discussion civil so I don't have to lock the topic or boot the ones that can't keep it that way.


I'd much rather you boot and/or delete than lock, if that's an option.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Katroine » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:24 pm

Easy there, this does not have to be an OMGYOUALLSUCK thread.
I like cookies. I like leveling. I know people who think we have too many cookies. I know people who think we level too fast.
I would never call into question who they are as human beings.

I don't see any reason for calling someone names for it or calling into question their life choices.
Seriously.

I answered no for the record.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:37 pm

Katroine wrote:I don't see any reason for calling someone names for it or calling into question their life choices.
Seriously.


This is much appreciated. I'm not sure where all the sudden hostility and ad hominem in here came from.

I thought I was pretty civil? Certainly wasn't calling anyone out individually. I was speaking about hugely excessive above-cap XP de-incentivizing good RP and effort. It's about consequence rather than the intent of DMs or players. Your intentions can sometimes be generous but have unintended effects down the line. Also, this is also my opinion and observations. That's what discussions are for. I'm not the Despotic Overlord of Avlis and have no power (or desire) to mold things into my own vision of what's ideal. All we can do is discuss honestly.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: krackq » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:41 pm

Seriously guys and gals.. the passive digs don't help the discussion either.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: krackq » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm not sure where I lie on the whole thing yet as I have some agreements with both sides. Blanket drive by cookies do not reward good rp when it happens but the world is also smaller on both sides that most good rp is probably going to be missed as well to get that extra cookie. At the same time I dont' think anyone should really be waiting at the doorstep or relying on that cookie either. If so I think there's some other issue then perhaps.

Any conversations that dive into xp caps and xp adjustments and tweaks are always a bit touchy. I dont think cookies should count towards the xp cap as they should be an above and beyond kind of thing from the team when they see you.. an extra little reward. I don't know what the guidelines are for cookies as I've seen them applied for the end of plots, rp events, just for hanging out, sometimes no reason whatsoever, sometimes with a tell attached for something done or not done, I've had stupid 1million xp cookies dropped on me back in the days when everyone thought avlis was much different or strict about cookies by people no longer here with a tell.. "here.. you're level 40 so this doesn't matter anyway" thinking they were funny.. that was before getting into crafting and xp started to matter and I had to be reset and lose all valid over 40 xp just to be safe. I've had the funny number cookies and the suck it 1xp cookie. In the end I've never relied on them as being anything really unless the timing was impeccable to something my pc has said ic'ly and got immediately cookied for it. With xp changes and party xp and other stuff it seems more easy to get xp now at least. Given that I just refreshed I've actually for the first time in years looked at xp before which is weird. In a party situation single dungeon run I could almost go from 21 to 22. I haven't checked the caps. It all feels foreign to me.

I'd almost love it if there were a way to turn off level and xp entirely so that you really had no way of knowing what level you were or how much xp you have or had or how much was needed to get to the next levels. That would be my answer. My post is all over the place!
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: GrimlyAxefingler » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:02 pm

dashdot wrote:
l1t3r wrote:
What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?


what....when.....what the hell?! When did this happen?


+1 - wtf?


When and where is this CvC happening? And is that the issue? That the dm cookies are enabling players to lvl faster than you can kill them?
You'll notice that i said "despite" the rules. It's just not happening.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:16 pm

Do you folks mind opening a separate discussion for CvC? It's something that should be clarified, for sure, but I don't think this is the place. Thanks!
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:17 pm

GrimlyAxefingler wrote:
dashdot wrote:
l1t3r wrote:
What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?


what....when.....what the hell?! When did this happen?


+1 - wtf?


When and where is this CvC happening? And is that the issue? That the dm cookies are enabling players to lvl faster than you can kill them?
You'll notice that i said "despite" the rules. It's just not happening.


First, my post was a joke. I absolutely know it's ok to CvC and kill characters. I've done it enough and I'm still around. Second, no, I would rather CvC a level 40 than a level 20, I'm not a dick that picks on lowbies.

My statement before stands. Have you ever watched a mage sky rocket to level 40 and then show absolutely no mastery, knowledge or control over the "power" they wield? I have...it's sad and painful to watch, and generally devolves into mass spamming Evards through every event, dungeon and good ole' fun time they partake in.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:18 pm

surfer69 wrote:Do you folks mind opening a separate discussion for CvC? It's something that should be clarified, for sure, but I don't think this is the place. Thanks!


I'm done, but feel some of my post counts towards why xp should be lessened in some fashion.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Zerub » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:31 pm

I will say one thing about DM cookies being greater than they use to be. Here is the way that I see it. I can go out and mindlessly bash monsters for an hour and literally get 8K-10K XP for it. If someone is in one of my DM events and RPing then you can bet I am going to make sure my XP Cookies either match or are better than that. I always keep an eye on how fast I can get XP from just crumping with people so that I have something to gauge my XP cookies on. I won't be just dropping that much to random people on the server, but I will in an event.

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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Deider » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:35 pm

Guys can we please get back on topic?

Now fire beetles... why aren't druids and rangers protecting them? If Negaria had an endangered species list, they would obviously top it. Seriously, the slaughter has to stop. They are just minding their own business in caves and sewers, aiding the environment by eating the waste products of other species...

... come to think of it, when you are handling a beetle belly, especially one you culled from a sewer, that belly's probably 95% full of partially digested piss and shit. Are you wearing gloves when you are handling them? When you craft a fire potion, shouldn't there be a 5% chance that you catch The Spite? Or maybe some new disease all its own? Can we have the team code Fire Beetle Herpes or Fire Beetle's Revenge or something?

Now, again back to the main topic of this thread... why is Shemathen doing nothing and allowing these basically defenseless creatures to be eradicated? Yes, they are the backbone of the Negarian Economy, but at what cost to the environment? Why have the Equalizers not stepped in? Where is the balance, for Mikon's sake!? Sweet baby Mikon, The Balance!@!!

All nine orders of magic and every active crafting guild should be developing a beetle-free fire potion recipe. Obviously every active DM plot should be ignored until this is done! For if the beetles were to go extinct, not only would Negaria lose a vibrant, beautiful species, but our entire economy would collapse. We must practice moderation, not excess! All nature gods should be working towards the creation of a beetle sanctuary - we could kick those useless shaahesk out of the POW camp in Elysia and make one there.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Antius » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:37 pm

A few disjointed thoughts:

Cookies don't bother me. They also don't affect me; I'm still going to do what I was planning to.

I don't like the recent "I don't like X that's been in place for a long time. Let's nerf it" posting. If it doesn't affect you, and it's not game-breaking, why worry about it?

As a "casual" player (odd hours, little play time most days, never part of a significant plot line in 12+ years), I'd rather see more focus on plot than reward. Get characters involved. Bring in more MacGuffin quests. Possess a few NPC's on a run-of-the-mill dungeon crawl.

Avlis is supposed to be about the experience, not the experience.

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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Blizzow » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:41 pm

If I am I following this discussion correctly, the issue is characters leveling too quickly through events because of excessive cookies?
I would be more inclined to vote in favor of lowering the amount or frequency of cookies, rather than having them capped.

Had to vote "No" on this one. Reason being I just don't see the need, and feel that this would remove, rather than add, to the game.

...also, shut your mouth Deider! If the gods didn't want us to kill the beetles, they wouldn't have filled them with delicious (expensive) juice.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:59 pm

Thought about it more once I stepped away from the thread for a few hours.

I think I would possibly change my answer to something like...continue allowing cookies to be an above cap bonus, BUT limiting the frequency and amount. Enforce the frequency and amount rules teamside...if the rules are outdated, update them. Allow extra leeway for special cases. But enforce SOMETHING. This is probably my ideal.

Alternatively, do have them count towards the cap and let DMs give whatever size and frequency cookies they want, since there's an upper limit.

As for how character progression affects others? Sometimes it doesn't. But sometimes it sure does get awkward when you have a level 40 character who's never really RP'd before come out of the woodwork and decides to become a Trust initiate, or something like that. Or worse, characters who IC claim mastery at something that's on their character sheet from low-effort xp/loot but they've never actually put in the time to RP out. I would say players that do this are the minority - most people like to play out a learning process even if they've been at 40 for years (s/o to characters like MJ who've been teaching CTS and crafting for a dog's age). It's just awkward and obnoxious when it does happen.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: loki70 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:05 pm

Maybe. I guess my apathy tells me no. I could care less what level others are. A 40th level nobody, no matter their build and buys, is still going to have troubles compared to a 40th level established character. Besides, NWN has been around for 14 or 15 years not, and Avlis just about as long...do people really not know how to play? I mean, is that a thing?

For some reason, I get the feeling that this really only applies to mages. Most other classes are plug and play, and even some tired...err, tried and true rhetoric will suffice for most people's immersion requirements.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Dull Fred » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:22 pm

I rarely hit my cap. I rarely get cookies.

So for me to get both in such a way that the weekly cap would be exceeded would be an extremely rare event. On that unlikely occasion, if I was somehow capped and lost a cookie, well, that might make me a bit grumpy.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sephira » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:07 pm

l1t3r wrote:My statement before stands. Have you ever watched a mage sky rocket to level 40 and then show absolutely no mastery, knowledge or control over the "power" they wield? I have...it's sad and painful to watch, and generally devolves into mass spamming Evards through every event, dungeon and good ole' fun time they partake in.


I didn't quite get to 40, but I'm saving this for the next time somebody asks why I remorted Sephira.

Dull Fred wrote:I rarely hit my cap. I rarely get cookies.


Now that all three of my characters are at or just above 20, I rarely hit my cap. Cookies I get appear to be one of three scenarios:
  • I get caught up in some event that I don't understand the context of and can't contribute to as meaningfully as I would like.
  • I'm at ACE meeting / bard night
  • Drive-by cookies, or at least what seem like drive-by cookies

In all three they feel unearned yet generous. I'm grateful but I don't know that I really deserved it.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sephira » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:19 pm

Or maybe its all just impostor syndrome, who the hell knows.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:18 am

Just musing here, but I wonder if the team would actually let players see what their guidelines for this kind of thing is?

The player base has rules and guidlines we are all suppose to know, but I only have a vauge idea that the team has some too.
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