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Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

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Should cookies count toward your weekly XP cap?

Yes, they're delicious but should count
20
35%
No, keep your hands off my cookies
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Total votes : 57

Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:06 pm

There used to be a time when cookies were genuine rewards for something. You had a brilliant idea that a DM thought was worth a little something extra, you solved a difficult problem, you completed a plot, or you said something that was perfect for the time and place.

But now, and don't get me wrong - I've benefitted from it as much or more than anyone else - I feel like cookies aren't seen as special anymore. The spate of server-wide cookies makes logging in almost mandatory when you see the right DMs on. It's like an arms race to level 40, and those who don't participate are going to be left in the proverbial pixie dust. And though some might argue otherwise, the cookie floods almost discourage good roleplay, because you know you're going to get just as many for sitting on a log or a bench at Zvidureth as you would for engaging in something more meaningful or involved.

If that's what you choose to do, that's cool - I have no problem with people who want to do their own thing or do nothing, but then let that be the avenue through which you get your XP. Not everyone has to go on adventures, involve themselves with guild events, or huck-and-jive at a bardic performance. Just do your own thing, whatever it is, and get your cookies and be happy.

But - isn't there always a "but"? - I don't see why, with the ease of getting XP (especially with half toward cap when partied up) nowadays, you should be able to be cookied to 40 (or, with artificing XP and the like, beyond) without limits. Think of it - a cookie could go back to being "yeah, I nailed it!" instead of "another thousand, sweet". If there's an argument for no limits and for cookies disregarding the weekly cap, please share that. Maybe I'm just overlooking the obvious.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope this can remain a civil and productive conversation; we've had enough white-hot ones lately, right?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Pekarion » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:09 pm

I like the possibility of levelling faster when you are a lowbie/midbie, but from 10k caps and up I think the cap gives enough leeway to include cookies. But: It should be party xp so that it counts as 1/2 towards cap.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Trigger » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:50 pm

Perhaps a flat rate of 50xp per cookie with anything more than that being a special reward?

Maybe if that were the case, the DM guidelines would need to be revised, but I'm not the one to make that decision, obviously :D
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sunscream » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:01 pm

Trigger wrote:Perhaps a flat rate of 50xp per cookie with anything more than that being a special reward?

Maybe if that were the case, the DM guidelines would need to be revised, but I'm not the one to make that decision, obviously :D


At the moment some DM's are violating how much XP is permitted to be given out in the DM guidelines by an egregious amount.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Voted yes on this. I haven't played much over the summer but even so I've been hit with 1000xp in cookies just standing in the start areas after logging in to check something on my character(s). Over a very short span of time. In light of that it doesn't surprise me much to see characters that were still fairly green when I was last playing suddenly showing up as level 40 on the server lists when I look at them now. I don't think cookie-ing people to 40 was ever how those were intended to be used. I'm all for letting RP events earn you some decent XP, but it seems excessive now. Especially when you can earn that kind of XP standing in the start area or AFKing in Zvidureth.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Moredo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:28 pm

I voted no!

In light of the other active thread at the moment:

I like big cookies and I can not lie
You other players can't deny
That when a DM logs on with an gen-erous fist
And a slap a cookie in your face
You get sprung, want to level up tough
Cause you notice that cookie was stuffed!


OK.. I'll show my self to the door :flucht:
Last edited by Moredo on Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:28 pm

Sunscream wrote:
Trigger wrote:Perhaps a flat rate of 50xp per cookie with anything more than that being a special reward?

Maybe if that were the case, the DM guidelines would need to be revised, but I'm not the one to make that decision, obviously :D


At the moment some DM's are violating how much XP is permitted to be given out in the DM guidelines by an egregious amount.


I don't believe it's as cut and dry as that Sunscream.

XP cookies from DM's are a lot bigger than they 10 years ago yes and the guidelines were drawn up when there was plenty of DM coverage. As thinly as the DM team have been over the years and some time zones not receiving much DM coverage. I would log for a few minutes with a bumper cookie drop for those who where roleplaying or simple to let the player base know I (we) was there.

Now with artifacing and the XP demands from crafting into account. I can see why the rewards are bigger. So Avlis 10 years ago XP wise was a lot lighter and even on the Dungeon script where 5 xp was the biggest gain per kill and now it's different. Avlis has evolved over the years to a PW that is self sufficient. A player now can do far more than it could 10 years ago, customization and various other systems.

I personally think the bumper XP cookie hand outs sometimes by DM's in my own opinion, have only ever been done with a good intentions in keeping the player base interested in Avlis. That cannot be a bad thing really can it?

So it a community there is a general consensous that the cookies are to large for what ever reason, I am 100% confident that the team will review their cookie rewards.

Me on a personal level, I use cookies to make stuff, so I am not complaining! :mrgreen:

*votes No*
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:47 pm

Xeo wrote:I personally think the bumper XP cookie hand outs sometimes by DM's in my own opinion, have only ever been done with a good intentions in keeping the player base interested in Avlis. That cannot be a bad thing really can it?


I think it can when it's sprayed out like a fire hose to the point it makes character progression meaningless. There's no incentive to earn anything or do much of anything if you can get so much doing relatively nothing. I'm not a fan of the arms race/speed track to level 40 and instant gratification stuff - to me, it's just boring and lacks any sense of achievement or meaning.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sunscream » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:48 pm

The fact that you're able to choose between using XP on crafting or leveling up, or for a level 40 just having something to spend your excess XP on isn't a reason to give insane amounts of XP.

If you could get level 30 to 40 in less than two months of DM cookies from one DM do you think that is just right, too much XP, or too little?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: GrimlyAxefingler » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:08 pm

How is my getting dm cookies affecting anyone elses enjoyment of the game?

This is not a pvp server, despite what the rules are, its not. What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?

Realistically some players are always going to have more than you and progress faster. You could make it that we only get 1xp per poem told to a wererat at midnight and still some players will be lvl 40 in less than six months. So what?

If your enjoyment requires having some sort of control over others playstyles maybe try a cult. I couldn't care less what lvl others are, how fast they get there, or what sword they are using to kill things on different servers when I'm not around. It doesn't affect the rp and certainly doesn't affect me playing the game.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:10 pm

What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?


what....when.....what the hell?! When did this happen?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:14 pm

GrimlyAxefingler wrote:How is my getting dm cookies affecting anyone elses enjoyment of the game?

This is not a pvp server, despite what the rules are, its not. What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?

Realistically some players are always going to have more than you and progress faster. You could make it that we only get 1xp per poem told to a wererat at midnight and still some players will be lvl 40 in less than six months. So what?

If your enjoyment requires having some sort of control over others playstyles maybe try a cult. I couldn't care less what lvl others are, how fast they get there, or what sword they are using to kill things on different servers when I'm not around. It doesn't affect the rp and certainly doesn't affect me playing the game.


And with this mentality...why start at level 1 anyway? Why not just put an autoleveler in the start tent, and let everyone just run out at level 40. Why have cookies at all?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: GrimlyAxefingler » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:16 pm

Exactly. Why on earth do you care?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:18 pm

Because I have a strong belief that character development is stunted severely when level 40 is hit in epic speeds. That's why I care.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Jazz » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:19 pm

No.

If there is a problem at all it's that sometimes the XP cookies are too big and are being handed out to everyone, and not just to those who RP or show great RP (subjective, of course).
It would be a shame if you were capped to not get this DM XP for said RP. Especially on low levels you're going to be capped rather fast. As someone who plays on a EURO timezone (and someone who plays a lot as of late) I hardly ever see a DM in action, other then the weekly NH4 events.

I agree with the sentiment that leveling these days is rather easy and goes very fast, but I would rather see other measures being taking to prevent this (if at all). Hitting the right dungeons (or perhaps with the right group?) can grant 2-3.500 xp. This seems too much to me. Especially with the 'new' party XP code. Some weeks I tend to join groups that hit dungeons a lot. I seem to hit the cap very fast, artifice away all the XP and later that week I've hit the cap again.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:21 pm

I think the fix is having DMs stick to the XP handout guidelines, and not doing a "cookie everyone on the server" when cookieing a party for an event.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:26 pm

Umm...lol...what? Characters most certainly can fight and kill other characters. It's called CvC. It's not my particular cup of tea because I'm terrible at it, but it's been a part of Avlis since the beginning.

The entitlement and needing instant gratification attitude is not a good look and not good for Avlis, IMHO. There's no incentive for good RP. You just end up with a bunch of lemmings showing up to chase after the phat XP and loot for minimal effort.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: dashdot » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:30 pm

l1t3r wrote:
What difference does it make what lvl others characters are considering your not allowed to kill anybody?


what....when.....what the hell?! When did this happen?


+1 - wtf?
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:45 pm

Xaila wrote:
Xeo wrote:I personally think the bumper XP cookie hand outs sometimes by DM's in my own opinion, have only ever been done with a good intentions in keeping the player base interested in Avlis. That cannot be a bad thing really can it?


I think it can when it's sprayed out like a fire hose to the point it makes character progression meaningless. There's no incentive to earn anything or do much of anything if you can get so much doing relatively nothing. I'm not a fan of the arms race/speed track to level 40 and instant gratification stuff - to me, it's just boring and lacks any sense of achievement or meaning.


I don't think DM's are trying to dish out cookies as an 'arm's race'. That is a point of view you have but it's not the intention or the goal of the DM's I can tell you.

If you kill a Champion Bugbear you get 60xp, if a DM cookies you 50 xp (Old School). What's the difference? Not a lot...

There has been good intentions in handing out the level of cookies or the size over the years and in no way intended to make a character progression meaningless.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Reading this post, I am so glad I do not DM anymore.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Sarmanos » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:53 pm

Is this actually about cookies affecting the exp cap because not even in the first post is that mentioned except for that poll. This seems to actually be an argument for saying "give out fewer cookies period." with a bait and switch topic name.

If you are concerned about people getting too much exp you could argue combat exp needs to be driven back down, but instead, you go for cookies? X:|

I'm not going to seriously address this until it comes clean on what this thread is really about.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:00 pm

Sarmanos wrote:Is this actually about cookies affecting the exp cap because not even in the first post is that mentioned except for that poll. This seems to actually be an argument for saying "give out fewer cookies period." with a bait and switch topic name.

If you are concerned about people getting too much exp you could argue combat exp needs to be driven back down, but instead, you go for cookies? X:|

I'm not going to seriously address this until it comes clean on what this thread is really about.


??? But combat XP has a weekly cap. DM cookies don't have a limit (or at least, limits haven't been followed in years), so in theory you can Scrooge McDuck swim in piles of it. Not the same at all. Not seeing where the confusion lies.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:00 pm

Sarmanos wrote:Is this actually about cookies affecting the exp cap because not even in the first post is that mentioned except for that poll. This seems to actually be an argument for saying "give out fewer cookies period." with a bait and switch topic name.

If you are concerned about people getting too much exp you could argue combat exp needs to be driven back down, but instead, you go for cookies? X:|

I'm not going to seriously address this until it comes clean on what this thread is really about.


Sorry if between the title of the thread, of the poll, and this:

surfer69 wrote:If there's an argument for no limits and for cookies disregarding the weekly cap, please share that.


it wasn't clear.

But yes, let me reiterate: it's about cookies affecting the weekly XP cap. Whether fewer and smaller cookies should be given out qualifies for this discussion, if you'd like to go in that direction. So if you'd like to "seriously address" this now, please feel fee.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:01 pm

The thought that pops in my mind is the few times I've had a tell saying - "well I reached my cap I'll be around next week" and I've stopped to explain that they can still get cookies from quests and DM visits if they would regularly log in.

On the other hand.. I use to think that the DM cookies were a pat on the back for good role play, then I realized they are just popping on, giving everyone a cookie and off again.

So, I can't pick yes or no.
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Re: Should cookies count toward weekly XP cap?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:02 pm

Sarmanos wrote:Is this actually about cookies affecting the exp cap because not even in the first post is that mentioned except for that poll. This seems to actually be an argument for saying "give out fewer cookies period." with a bait and switch topic name.

If you are concerned about people getting too much exp you could argue combat exp needs to be driven back down, but instead, you go for cookies? X:|

I'm not going to seriously address this until it comes clean on what this thread is really about.


1+ 100%
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