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Serious vs. Silly

General discussion about Avlis

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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Dull Fred » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:56 pm

*Pulls on rusty pally hat* }8)

1. Was I offended either IC or OOC from what I've read of this plot line? Ans: No.
2. Would my pally have been offended by the rumoured artefact? Ans: No. Why is it always assumed that Gorethar is anti-sex? The natural law of procreation is still arguably a law and there aint no 'original sin' on avlis. A holy relic would have been an item/rumour to be investigated albeit with a somewhat disbelieving/jaundiced eye as I don't think Gorethar ever had a formal/lawful partner.
3. Paladins do not have to be chaste. ( An essay for the class: if one considers procreation a natural law, is a paladin - if they are chaste for their entire life ( mine wasn't ) - actually acting in a lawful way? )
4. If I had been there would it have spoiled my immersion via a cringe factor? Ans: No. I'd have just run with it. I may have tried to pluck a kenku .....
5. If Xeo had continued with his events would I have attended them? Ans: Yes. So far I haven't been able to but he's right in that there isn't much DM plot action in euro time, so it's a shame he feels he can't continue.
6. I do not agree that more communication always resolves issues. Sometimes it is the reverse.

And if Gorethar or his followers wanted to make a cock ring it would the best one evah ... ( LG only, glow in the dark, D6 Vs undead ( just in case dumb pallies make a mistake), casts Bless on use etc. Can I have one?
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Levis Pie » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:22 pm

Xeo wrote:I am just wondering why has this all come about? What's the reason here, for something that happened 6 months ago and wasn't an issue at the time or brought up...

I wonder why... X:|


Because he just learned of it? As have I. Some of us aren't able to check the forums everyday, let alone get in game, sometimes for months at a time.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Levis Pie wrote:
Xeo wrote:I am just wondering why has this all come about? What's the reason here, for something that happened 6 months ago and wasn't an issue at the time or brought up...

I wonder why... X:|


Because he just learned of it? As have I. Some of us aren't able to check the forums everyday, let alone get in game, sometimes for months at a time.


It happened six months ago and if you go to the source thread where the opening post was quoted. Then I will leave it to you to make up your mind.

Again I've said this and will repeat again with respect and honesty... My line of questioning was not targeted at Moredo but at the very topic and why it is now all of a sudden raised as a point of discussion now.

I questioned the very purpose and agenda of the topic (not the author, please understand this).

There are many levels in a situation and some are cut and dry.

This one isn't in my opinion.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Moredo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:06 pm

Thanks Pleth, it is genuinely good to be back.

I definitely know that my DMing wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I got tonnes of feedback during my stint as a DM (good and bad, from players and team members), and I'm certain that made me grow both as a player and a DM. That said, this thread was never meant as an indictment on the DM running this particular event.

When I created the thread, I didn't mean for it to be about this event (and I would assume anyone reading my posts can see that - I have spoken separately Fellock to make sure he also understands that), I just used it as an example of something I think is too far, when it comes what is reasonable in the pursuit of fun rather than serious.

Looking back, I wish I hadn't mentioned this as an example of something that would kill my immersion, then we could perhaps had a bit more constructive discussion.

There is no need for you to apologize, or for anyone to do that. I'm not mad that this event was run, or if there are other events similar to it being run. What I am saying that silly stuff taken that far is something I don't like - and I wondered where the rest of the player base is with regards to that question. Given the answers here, it seems to be about 50/50.

To finish off.. let me say reiterate that there is no malice or vitriol meant in my posts.
Last edited by Moredo on Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:33 pm

I'm glad you posted that, Moredo.

I think this has careened not only into the personal, which makes me sad, but also into some kind of "us" (we're so fucking serious!) versus "them" (can't we all just get along and have fun?) discussion. Players don't need to be on one side or another, because the way I see it - and maybe I'm flat-out wrong - the divide is a failure of communication (sorry Dull Fred).

I wish we could reframe the discussion from "hey, I've been gone a while, but what the fuck, a Cock Ring of Gorethar?!?!" to "hey, I've been gone a while, do people really enjoy something like this nowadays?" Because if you take out the polarizing "artifact" that Moredo mentioned at the start of this thread (which I had been trying to do all along), the question still stands.

Personally, I enjoy silly shit, though ironically my fun-loving blackguard is ill-suited for it. I'd rather chase the elusive M'Chekian Beaver than hear another lecture about the state of the spiritkin, that's for sure. But what worries me is silly shit becoming the norm rather than the exception, whether because a DM is too afraid to invest the time and thought into something serious or they don't want to suffer the wrath of players. If that's what it's come to, what a fucking shame. And if I share in any of the responsibility for that, I'm truly sorry.

I don't have the right to tell anyone how to play, and I definitely don't have the right to tell anyone how to DM, never having picked up a wand. What I've been trying to do in my posts, and what I hope is the focus here, is to figure out how we as players, DMs, QA folks, Producers, etc. can come to an accord about what we hope to see or, more specifically, not see on Avlis in the light of what it has been.

These are big questions, well beyond the scope of this discussion, but they're worth mulling over away from the current heat of this or any thread.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Demonlady » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:41 pm

I simply could not resist to react to this:
Dull Fred wrote:A holy relic would have been an item/rumour to be investigated albeit with a somewhat disbelieving/jaundiced eye as I don't think Gorethar ever had a formal/lawful partner.


Yes he had one: "Berryn was wrought of the union between Gorethar and a unique dwarven druidess named Kitanya Meygle."
See here.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:02 pm

I agree with what Surfer said. It captures my feelings exactly and Demonlady was faster then me to remind people that Gorethar did have a wife. :D
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xaila » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:12 pm

Demonlady wrote:I simply could not resist to react to this:
Dull Fred wrote:A holy relic would have been an item/rumour to be investigated albeit with a somewhat disbelieving/jaundiced eye as I don't think Gorethar ever had a formal/lawful partner.


Yes he had one: "Berryn was wrought of the union between Gorethar and a unique dwarven druidess named Kitanya Meygle."
See here.


You don't strictly need a partner to enjoy the usage of a cockring...just saying. :roll:
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Deider » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:02 am

Moredo wrote:What are peoples thoughts on this? To a certain extent, I agree with Plethora - not all plots, quests or lore needs to be super serious - I've DM'ed silly/fun events in the past, and had great fun in humor filled events as a player.


A couple of thoughts:

- The Underdark was mentioned. liephus and I were very fortunate to have had a hand in shaping Verloghokbol when it first came out. Xeo made a UK/Holland analogy a few pages back, and that was kind of what we were thinking with Verlog - we wanted it to have a totally different feel than Mikona or Elysia. And yes, my sense of humor can be found in a lot of the NPCs there, and that sense of humor is rated NC-17 (or is it called MA these days?), though I tried to not be too overt.

- It may not seem this way, but I think long and hard about what Gram says. As others have posted, it can be hard to know what "the line" is for other people, especially online, since we cannot see each others' faces to gauge reactions. Both of my PCs - Gram & Deider of Pelar before him - have something in common in that they will sometimes make sexually charged statements without knowing it (such as the hunt for the "elusive M'Chekian Beaver"). Personally I probably like a 70/30 mix of serious and silly, and I try to keep that balance, and I worry a lot that I go overboard with Gram. I would hope that if Gram offended someone that they would send me a Tell or a PM about it. I think it was in Cameron's interview that he compares roleplaying to a jazz performance - we all get that solo in the spotlight from time to time, but most of the time we are all playing this game/song together. (If you are soloing Avlis all the time, you are basically using D&D to beat off.) So while I want to be faithful to my own character and his role, I try to be cognizant of the other players & characters, and play off of them. Many years ago I had an alt account and I played a pimp in Mikona - some players didn't like the manner of speech I used with him, there was a GD discussion, and as a result I stopped playing the character. I didn't have a problem with what I was doing, but others did, and I'd rather play this game in a manner where I am having fun with people, and not at their expense.

- Rule #0 is "The DM is always right." I haven't always agreed with what The Team does, even when I was on it, but I respect them and what they do. And "right" and "perfect" are two different things. For every DM past and present on Avlis there is at least one "DM cock-up story" (no pun intended), myself included. There are things that I would have done differently and wish I could change, though had I not made those mistakes I would not have improved, so I guess it's better that I can't change them, lest we get into some kind of weird "Back to the Future" scenario. Anyway, as players and DMs we just have to roll with those occasional screw-ups and game on.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:58 am

I like what Dieder said too.
Comrades Fill No Glass For Me - Stephen Foster
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Micah » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:06 am

I remember something DanishPastry once asked (or said or something)

Some characters were serious

Some characters were for lulz

I've always tried to keep that in mind, personally. My edgelord RP character has its place, my for-fun RP character has its place, and I'm cool with walking away when events don't fit the former and I don't sweat strangeness when I'm in the latter.

Funny thing I've observed, though, is that if i get stuck in a situation with my edgelord PC that I think doesn't fit the style of game I want with them, I get moody as fuck. Always have, it's been almost 13 years since I rolled up Micah and that hasn't changed. I am probably 10% less asshole than I was then. So, I can relate to those frustrations.

On the flip side, lightening the hell up is only a matter of switching toons and playing for lulz.

Now the balance between serious and silly content is highly dependent on personal taste and a conversation that we can keep going. I resonate with a lot of these posts, surfer's, moredo's, deiders

If you guys want to start this fresh, go for it. We'll leave any vitriol real or imagined here and talk about style and tastes and such. There is a lot of things I miss about years past, and a lot of things I really like about today. There are things we can do now that we couldn't do even 3 years ago, so I'd like to keep the ideas coming (this thread can continue, too, but it has taken its own direction at this point)

Redo?
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: slow feet » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:56 pm

Case in point.

I remember many years ago. I was trying to sit through a Trust lecture (2hrs!) with my half-ogre mage with bowel issues, when the DM messaged me to back up. The results were....priceless. :flucht:

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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Elradra » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:08 am

I rather enjoy the 70/30 ratio between serious and silly as well. I like to think I even manage to get my two main characters to keep their actions roughly to those ratios. My own version of silly leans towards the dark and morbid too when it isn't flat out obnoxious, so I try to keep it toned down. Somehow I seem to have different tolerance levels for silliness between myself as a player, and any one of my characters. I personally am rarely bothered by the silly unless it makes an event drag out when I'm already well over time. But with my characters I somehow get really into their shoes. Moody, melancholic, seething Ebony Elradra makes me feel irritated by different stimuli than when I'm playing cut-throat, cocky mercenary Rade. But when things get irritating I like to deal with them IC, since it's the channel of communication the overload is coming from.

I have... maybe three silly characters in my vault of over 40, but they rarely fulfill a brand of fun my serious characters can't handle. Elra still has her mischievous side and still enjoys the odd prank here and there. Rade is starting to develop one too now that only about five people in the world can typically see her. I use similar methods to cope with playstyles that don't quite fit my mood but at different intervals for each character. If there's a large group I note who isn't participating much in the goofing around and form a little dungeon run so we can all be serious edgelords together and earn some material advancement sometimes. By the time we get back the goofballs have worked it all out of their systems. If only one character is being obnoxious it's kinda fun to try to make it awkward for them to continue, usually by sitting in front of them and staring while I grab a soda. The full unhappy and undivided attention of an evil character waiting for entertainment is my favorite tool. If multiple characters are turning it into a competition and I can't find good reason to get away, like in the last Pubcrawl in Verlog, I'll reslot the Hostile button on a hotbar and see how things progress from there.

So.. I'm definitely more in the serious camp, but I still totally love yo' mama jokes and maybe one OOC reference a day or so. Even the goofiest, OOC comments-ridden day here is nothing compared to the hours of PnP with my friends that devolved into crude jokes and one combat for a session.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Zerub » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:43 am

I like some serious, some silly, I just like it all. Whether serious or silly, it is always a break from RL where I don't have to stress over work. :)

Speaking of silly, I am still waiting for someone to come up with Manuel the Whites fight with the combat dummies! Oh my gosh that was hilarious!

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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:31 am

I think for me I would replace the word 'serious' with ideas:

I know not everyone can memorize the entire history of Avlis but I've put effort into trying to remember what I can.

I have fun making flippant remarks and trying to imbue things with double meanings. Even if it doesn't always work. :D

But I also cherish the fact I could tell you the history of Elysia and the Champions. I can tell you a lot about Ferrellilian history and give you a good telling of some of Mikon's history. I know who O'Ma's kids are. I know the connection between Gorethar and the 'hin' (thats Halflings for those that don't speak Ferrialian). <<< I dun know aaaalll the history but I love that I know a great deal and I adore people who can recite that kind of stuff as much as I adore people who are on the spot creative with word play. Maybe even more the former then the latter because the former seem so rare.
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Oh! comrades, fill no glass for me
To drown my soul in liquid flame
For if I drank, the toast should be
To blighted fortune health and fame.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Ambrosia » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:21 pm

Way to go, This Thread. :glaskugel:


[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sun Aug 27 00:32:19] Pelar : //We have decided to roll dice to determine whether an event is serious or silly.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sun Aug 27 00:32:49] Pelar : //so proportions should shift, timing will get worse.




:flucht:


:lol:
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