Server Totals
Le'Or - (2)
Mikona - (2)
Visimontium - (1)
Ferrell - (0)
Elysia - (0)
M'Chek - (0)
Deglos - (0)
Wilderness - (0)
Underdark - (0)
Total players: 5
Gallery
  • Winter Ball 2015
    Album name: DM Events
    Uploaded by: Ronan
    Uploaded: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:38 pm

Links Menu

Serious vs. Silly

General discussion about Avlis

Moderators: Nighthawk4, Dungeon Masters

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:30 pm

l1t3r wrote:I feel like that question has been answered more than once, Xeo.

Personally, I don't play much anymore, mostly because of holy bawls busy RL stuff...but there is an element of silliness that has become prominent in the past year or so that doesn't fit my character, nor my play style, really. To be honest, I'm cool with silly, there needs to be silly from time to time, and I have occasionally broken character in specific events due to RL mood, beer consumption, etc. It's not right, character wise, but it happens. The issue I have is when silly bleeds over and disrupts the deeper, more serious, avlis lore. Avlis isn't a family guy episode, it doesn't just go away after it's done, and I think for the most part everyone does a great job of conveying this. It IS the one offs that are more likely to disrupt the deeper story, and it's those one offs that need to be carefully administered. I think that's all I really want to say.


Fair enough.

The views and opinions have certainly been interesting to read and have helped me as a player tremendously.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: loki70 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:32 pm

Personally I've only ever had my immersion broken when there are RL references in IG situations or when something is a bit over the top silly. But then again, I have different characters for different levels of silly, and I generally look at who is on to determine who I am going to play and have the most fun playing. I remember back in the day the Elf Gate group and The Rock group were completely opposite. Used to be if you wanted silly, you logged into EG and watched people buff the crap out of crop rats or pick wheat as a dragon or something equally ridiculous. You went to the Rock to have serious discussions of ground shaking proportions and everyone would be ready to fight at a moment's notice whenever the exploding dire chickens invaded or when the sereg would attack and kill everyone in sight...ah, those were the days.

I think the point here is that the two groups who were completely separate for years are now muddled in Zvid, and it runs the gambit of silly and serious. Since I generally play a LN character who can give straight man lessons to a mannequin, I play just that, and sit and watch and let the ridiculous nature wash over me.

Part of the problem with playing Rickus is that he's had to bow out of events and outings because of the other characters involved. His deep hatred of malekites and confounders, his general "stick-up-buttedness" attitude, and his lack of a sense of humor when it comes to a lot of things has always kept him from that quick run into the slaver's den, or warrens, or world plots that were counter to his beliefs.

To return to topic, my thinking is that the silliness has always been there to some degree, but it's just much more to the fore now that the player base, and with it the world of Avlis, is much smaller than it was back when.
Anomandari: You're the perfect needle for our balloons.
User avatar
loki70
QA Resource
 
Posts: 6977
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:34 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Timezone: gmt -7

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:02 pm

I have no doubt that Moredo's post is just what he said - a player returning from a long absence and being a bit dumbfounded at reading about the Cock Ring of Gorethar. His question is an entirely legitimate one - is there a reasonable limit on what's acceptable in the pursuit of "fun" rather than "serious". His post isn't directed toward you personally, Xeo, but rather is an honest question about whether the tone of Avlis has changed radically in his absence.

My character is an aggression-baiting asshole with a testosterone disorder who simply doesn't have time for the nuances of sexual innuendo - he cuts straight to the meat of it. If this offends people deeply, I'm glad to know it in a thread like this, and can take that into account. He also has a sense of humor, I like to think, and I hope he's fun to be around, because half the jokes he makes are at his own expense.

That said, I simply won't play him for something that's Three's Company silly. As an entirely made-up example, I wouldn't go near a plot or one-off that were about saving Dre'Ana's (or Adalwyn's) chastity belt, uncovering the recipe for Fellock's Sacred Muffin, or finding Kelthran's Golden Shower. Those things do nothing for me, and seeing PCs trying to out-ham each other more than once in a while takes me completely out of the high-fantasy atmosphere I came here for. Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional tilt into the absurd, but even that should be done with a little more cleverness than exploding dire chickens falling out of the sky or Flying Jockstraps of Doom.

I appreciate that DMs put in a lot of time they don't have to, a lot of effort they don't have to, and endure a lot of grief they don't have to. My goal here wasn't to disparage any DMs, and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but to give an honest and clear opinion regarding Moredo's very valid original post.

Cheers.
"See, want, take. What else is there, right?"
User avatar
surfer69
Apprentice Scholar
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:21 pm
Timezone: EST

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Pekarion » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:27 pm

As far as I can piece together, it started with the official IC letter from Elysia to MJ.
A combination of spelling errors, disregard for history/lore and what someone on IRC fittingly called "handwaviness", had several of us dumbfounded. Sunscream said he had reacted to the letter, but was shut down for being mean. Given his recent snark on the boards I'm not sure that will resolve itself soon

On IRC the talk turned more towards DM's playing their characters more than DM'ing, and being an object of other DM's attention too. After a quick look at the current DM roster I am assuming we're talking about churning Micah. This is the least of my worries.

Lastly; Sunscream has been suspended for above mentioned meanness and vocal disagreement with the team. This is what has brought up the plot, Xeo. It's a very clear divide between established lore and tone (Gorethar) and the sillyness (Cockrings).This one-off plot is a perfect illustration of what we're discussing.

That's the timeline as I understood it, but I think the more important part is to talk about the philosophical divide beneath it all. This has gotten personal and I think we should reel it back to what we're actually discussing. I like to think of it in terms of imagination and creativity, so as to not have two conflicting terms.



Imagination VS Creativity

Imagination is thinking up giant pink winged wildebeests that are hunted by half-ogre/half satyrs for their wings and viagra-like qualities.

Creativity is considering the culture and precepts of the Church of The'ton, and finding out what extreme character dynamics it might produce.

For me, Imagination is what keeps Avlis alive but creativity is what makes me love it.

Plethora gives ample room for imagination. She's also the hardest working IG DM by far. Extremely forgiving, inclusive, rewarding and understanding. Plethora has made my Avlis experience a lot better, and for the people she DM's often, she might be the sole reason for them playing. Still, ranking as my number 1 DM in terms of having logged in and having fun, I can still say that I am not a fan of her story elements. My impressions are that they contain a slew of elements I don't enjoy thematically: Fey, dragons, time manipulation, a large menagerie of characters, melodrama.

I think my best example of this would be the Spiritkin plot and how it gave me Brandon Sanderson associations, who is an author I don't care for. These stories also attract players who like these themes, ranging from whimsical to melodramatic and on that range there is seldom anything for me or my characters to do. That is MY fault.

That being said said, I would also say that I think the above mentioned group and style of roleplay is what has kept Avlis alive through all these years. It was once furries at Elf Gate, then treehuggers in Zvidureth, now the Pub Crawl crowd. The pub crawl crowd is far more inclusive and open for "serious" roleplay but there is an element of whimsy that shouldn't take precedent over the established lore and feel of the world.

My late night musings on rolling up a dormirian merchant druid might make me go back to the CC or the boards, but it's the Pub Crawl that actually makes me log in.

On the other hand, it's the consistent and fleshed out world I really love about Avlis. "Gorethar's Cockring 2" wouldn't get me to log on from a long hiatus, but a revolt in Galdos might. On that side, we have Sunscream and Nob who are arbiters of a fleshed out consistent world. They have devoted a lot of time into Avlis and have a wealth of knowledge about it. I think taking care of those interwoven threads and feel of the world is JUST as important. I'm sad that Sunscream is suspended, but it's also hard to defend him when I don't know what's gone down and he acts like a butthole on the boards.

Noone is hurt by someone running a silly event, but you have to be able to take it in stride if someone thinks you're breaking immersion. The pub crawls are a huge success because you don't have to be available for long running plots or similar and everyone is welcome. What hurts is when it overshadows established ambience and lore. I think all DM's should have explicit permission if they are to run something involving major religions, nations, races etc, because it not only affects characters now, but also characters of ages past and what a lot of the world was built on.


Edited a misunderstanding~
Last edited by Pekarion on Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ice-T on D&D:
"Dungeons & Dragons is some of the most crazy, deep, deep, deep nerd shit ever invented. Every word you're saying is made up. Motherfuckers talk like Yoda.".
User avatar
Pekarion
Sage
 
Posts: 1760
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:03 pm
Location: Norway
Timezone: GMT+1

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Fellock Dust Talon » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:39 pm

*Yawns, stretching and waking up* A'right, let's see what folks done posted on th' board t'day-AWK! *Is suckerpunched unconscious by words referencing him*

*coughs* The quest in question was prompted by Fellock attempting to make amends for having stolen a holy chalice of Gorethar, and he was tasked with finding a cursed ring and throwing it into a volcano. Despite being a very silly and comical quest, the thing Fellock took away from it was to never steal from the gods. You won't see him taking things from altars after that experience unless the god in question grants him permission. So even though, yes, it was a silly story, it actually resulted in some serious character development.

For me, personally, I enjoy almost every kind of story. I enjoy really silly, light hearted things, and I enjoy really dark, horrible, serious things, and I enjoy everything in between and every variation of the two. I just try to roll with whatever is put in front of me. Fellock is a primarily comedic character, but he does have a more serious side (Really! I swear!), and if the general tone of a situation is more serious, I'll try my best to adjust to fit the mood. He also has an off button that any other character can flick just by asking him to be quiet or shut up, in case people just don't want to deal with him at the moment. I always hope folks enjoy his antics, as the absolute last thing I ever want to do is detract from anyone else's experience, and I would feel terrible if I did. So if anything I said or did during this event left a bad taste, I'm genuinely sorry.
User avatar
Fellock Dust Talon
Roleplayer of the Year 2016
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:06 am

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:58 pm

surfer69 wrote:I have no doubt that Moredo's post is just what he said - a player returning from a long absence and being a bit dumbfounded at reading about the Cock Ring of Gorethar. His question is an entirely legitimate one - is there a reasonable limit on what's acceptable in the pursuit of "fun" rather than "serious". His post isn't directed toward you personally, Xeo, but rather is an honest question about whether the tone of Avlis has changed radically in his absence.


Hello!

I am not taking this personally and if I am giving the impression, than I apologise. I have a view point on this and opinion too. I've stated on numerous occasions in this thread, that this was a one off event 6 months back and is not the tone or feel for Avlis at all

I can say this because I am on the Team and I see what the other DM's are writing up plot wise, event wise and trying to help shape and develop the world base on your characters. This is what I've been doing with my time on the team for the last six months or more.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:33 pm

Pekarion wrote:Noone is hurt by someone running a silly event, but you have to be able to take it in stride if someone thinks you're breaking immersion. The pub crawls are a huge success because you don't have to be available for long running plots or similar and everyone is welcome. What hurts is when it overshadows established ambience and lore. I think all DM's should have explicit permission if they are to run something involving major religions, nations, races etc, because it not only affects characters now, but also characters of ages past and what a lot of the world was built on.


I'm quoting this because it's good enough to read twice. Thanks, Pek.
"See, want, take. What else is there, right?"
User avatar
surfer69
Apprentice Scholar
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:21 pm
Timezone: EST

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Demonlady » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:20 pm

Seeing that I got quoted as the one who appreciated Fellock's playstyle I thought I'd put my two cents in as well :wink:

First of all, I like his playstyle in general and didn't even know about the whole cock-ring thing before reading about it now.

More importantly to me: when a character of mine hears Fellock says things like that their natural reaction is that he is mixing or making things up.
Why would *anyone* ICly think that is not the case ?

So it does not break immersion to me, just like a professional fool tripping and falling on his face seven times in a row also would not.
Because it gets interpretated as a joke.
And as someone who plays a few characters that basically are intended as comic relief as well, I would not want a world that is totally serious.

As far as immersion breaking goes: I've seen people see a tower sized dragon land in some event and they all go like 'Oh hey yeah, nothing unusual, we can take this' and that does NOT break immersion ?
I really wonder why.

Have fun and game on :)
"If I had been a cat, curiosity would have killed me a long time ago".

Visit the H.E.A.L. website on: http://heal.ry-ky.com/index.php
User avatar
Demonlady
Apprentice Scholar
 
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:18 pm
Location: timezone: GMT +1, winter: GMT +1, summer: GMT +2

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Vichan Lyonsen » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:16 pm

More importantly to me: when a character of mine hears Fellock say things like that their natural reaction is that he is mixing or making things up.
Why would *anyone* ICly think that is not the case ?


I'm totally in this camp. I have PC's that frankly have a hard time trusting much that comes out of fellocks mouth as truth, on the other hands I have pc's that absolutely love that little winged kook. Regardless of which one of these I am playing I always look forward to seeing him.

Problem is that Fellock ran across the Khaghk Ring.

The Khaghk ring is a semi-intelligent artifact fashioned by the infamous gnome confounder Billie Klieghenschnauser.

The ring's intelligence manifests as a form of self-reinforcing empathy. For highly disciplined minds the ring can be boon in all manner of actions, however for the more "bird-brained" it has a bad habit of seizing on baser emotions and reinforcing them.

Recently it appeared as the misnamed "Cock ring of Gorethar", cock clearly being a mispronunciation of the original Khaghk, the association to Gorethar is rather spurious and most likely a result of the confounders sense of humor.

The method of crafting this ring is lost to history, it was supposed to have been forged in the caldera of Mt. Smokes and legend has it that it could only be destroyed there. The ring has gone missing and it is unlikely that any will be verifying that anytime soon.


Silliness to me has got to happen, we can only handle so many end of world scenarios before we all go gaga. So yeah, when I first heard about this story, back when it was happening, I lost immersion when I learned the ring had to be dropped in Mt. Smokes, for about 6 seconds because the derivative storyline, I think. The whole cock ring part was a bit over the top but on the other hand, I don't see anyone trying to make the "Cock ring of Gorethar" a significant part of Avlis canon.

Just like the shit mage in Elysia with her shit golems, everyone there was having a hoot of a time with all the crappy puns going back and forth (see what I did there), no one was worried that there really isn't any AMS called Crapomancy.

Everyone has their own tolerance level for immersion loss, and we all experience it from time to time to a certain degree. I think if one encounters an event that goes too far, a simple tell to the DM channel or simply find an excuse to walk away
I've spent most of my money on beer, fast women, and fast cars. The rest I just wasted .
User avatar
Vichan Lyonsen
CCC
CCC
 
Posts: 3602
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:23 am
Location: San Diego PST >GMT-8<
Timezone: pacific

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:24 pm

Vichan Lyonsen wrote:
More importantly to me: when a character of mine hears Fellock say things like that their natural reaction is that he is mixing or making things up.
Why would *anyone* ICly think that is not the case ?


I'm totally in this camp. I have PC's that frankly have a hard time trusting much that comes out of fellocks mouth as truth, on the other hands I have pc's that absolutely love that little winged kook. Regardless of which one of these I am playing I always look forward to seeing him.

Problem is that Fellock ran across the Khaghk Ring.

The Khaghk ring is a semi-intelligent artifact fashioned by the infamous gnome confounder Billie Klieghenschnauser.

The ring's intelligence manifests as a form of self-reinforcing empathy. For highly disciplined minds the ring can be boon in all manner of actions, however for the more "bird-brained" it has a bad habit of seizing on baser emotions and reinforcing them.

Recently it appeared as the misnamed "Cock ring of Gorethar", cock clearly being a mispronunciation of the original Khaghk, the association to Gorethar is rather spurious and most likely a result of the confounders sense of humor.

The method of crafting this ring is lost to history, it was supposed to have been forged in the caldera of Mt. Smokes and legend has it that it could only be destroyed there. The ring has gone missing and it is unlikely that any will be verifying that anytime soon.


Silliness to me has got to happen, we can only handle so many end of world scenarios before we all go gaga. So yeah, when I first heard about this story, back when it was happening, I lost immersion when I learned the ring had to be dropped in Mt. Smokes, for about 6 seconds because the derivative storyline, I think. The whole cock ring part was a bit over the top but on the other hand, I don't see anyone trying to make the "Cock ring of Gorethar" a significant part of Avlis canon.

Just like the shit mage in Elysia with her shit golems, everyone there was having a hoot of a time with all the crappy puns going back and forth (see what I did there), no one was worried that there really isn't any AMS called Crapomancy.

Everyone has their own tolerance level for immersion loss, and we all experience it from time to time to a certain degree. I think if one encounters an event that goes too far, a simple tell to the DM channel or simply find an excuse to walk away


100% Agree with this view.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Gaelyn Faerstryd » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:35 pm

dashdot wrote:I'm all for silly moments, after all, it's a game. There is knowing when to toe the line, and when to tone it down and get srs. (or run away)

That said, when I heard about the Cockring of Gorethar item ... *lost for words* ... just, utter cringe. I'm so glad my Paladin wasn't there. So if you're asking if it bothered other players, then yes, it bothers/ed me and I hope I never run across anything like that personally.

:kotz:

I came to Avlis a while ago and I've enjoyed the gritty RP that has the real possibility to have an influence on your character (or vice-versa) and the world. There's a ton that can be done with the setting, it doesn't need to devolve into sex/sextoy jokes/RP - there's a lot more to life/the fantasy world than that. I'm glad they said it 'didn't happen' or that it got destroyed in a fire, but IMO, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, because we all know that you can't undo things that easily. It's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.


Well said! :cooler: +1
"Anything worth doing... is worth doing fanatically." -- G. Irwin - **
User avatar
Gaelyn Faerstryd
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 1814
Images: 1
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:24 am
Location: Quebec, Canada (GMT -5)
Timezone: Eastern

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:54 pm

dashdot wrote:I'm all for silly moments, after all, it's a game. There is knowing when to toe the line, and when to tone it down and get srs. (or run away)

That said, when I heard about the Cockring of Gorethar item ... *lost for words* ... just, utter cringe. I'm so glad my Paladin wasn't there. So if you're asking if it bothered other players, then yes, it bothers/ed me and I hope I never run across anything like that personally.

:kotz:

I came to Avlis a while ago and I've enjoyed the gritty RP that has the real possibility to have an influence on your character (or vice-versa) and the world. There's a ton that can be done with the setting, it doesn't need to devolve into sex/sextoy jokes/RP - there's a lot more to life/the fantasy world than that. I'm glad they said it 'didn't happen' or that it got destroyed in a fire, but IMO, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, because we all know that you can't undo things that easily. It's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.


I didn't know Avlis was rated U.

Remind me to avoid you IG because I do play a rather risky Pirate who has a rough tongue and can be very innuendo-ish. I do poke fun out of Thaylis's tight ass and it's a bit of IC harmless fun and a running joke too. If the player didn't like it, they can always send me a tell saying "Not my cup of tea RPing buddy :)". It would stop straight away because that is what adults do, communicate.

I think there are going to be certain players I am going to avoid all together IG just to be safe. I'm not in the business of wanting to offend people IC/OOC and that is not my nature at all. That's not fair on anyone but at the same time I don't want to be treading on egg shells around players PC's, just in case I've offend them. So the best way to protect myself, is to avoid those of a sensitive like nature all together.

It's one of the reasons I've stepped down from the Team because I'm not going to put myself in this situation. Shame I won't be telling stories and helping players develop their characters in the world but I don't feel comfortable with the player base at all.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Moredo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:19 pm

Xeo, dude, none of the post in this thread has been about you. To the best of my knowledge you have run good shit as a DM. I like to play with Ony, and with your other characters (I even remember, and like, Isamu who town attacked and killed all NPCs in sight).

Please stop whinging and making this about you, it is definitely not. That has been stated clearly several times.

Xeo wrote:Shame I won't be telling stories and helping players develop their characters in the world but I don't feel comfortable with the player base at all.


If you have quit as a DM that is a shame, but you don't get to put that on us (or me). If a discussion on how the lore of this rich persistent RP world is treated makes you uncomfortable with the player base, then that is on you.
Last edited by Moredo on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Moredo
CCC
CCC
 
Posts: 7397
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 3:47 pm
Location: Norway (GMT +2)
Timezone: +2

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 pm

Moredo wrote:Xeo, dude, none of the post in this thread has been about you. To the best of my knowledge you have run good shit as a DM. I like to play with Ony, and with your other characters (I even remember, and like, Isamu who town attacked and killed all NPCs in sight).

Please stop whinging and making this about you, it is definitely not. That has been stated clearly several times.

Xeo wrote:Shame I won't be telling stories and helping players develop their characters in the world but I don't feel comfortable with the player base at all.


If you have quit as a DM that is a shame, but you don't get to put that on us (or me). If a discussion on how the lore of this rich persistent RP world is treated makes you uncomfortable with the player base, then that is you.


Oh I am not whinging here and you best believe that. How about I am livid with some of you at the moment and your behaviour, I'm standing up for what I believe is right here and clearly I can see that there are others here that have a darker agenda.

I am not stupid mark my words, people make a huge mistake thinking I am but you have just confirmed exactly the spirit and nature of this thread, this is not about me (Of course I bloody KNOW!)... It's about 'other people'. Well the 'other people' who are people who I have huge amount of respect, appreciation and love for the dedication and time they have spent within this community.

So *golf claps* those who are reading this, you got what you wanted. A DM wand hand in.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:11 pm

I don't think anyone has done more to keep this PW alive than Plethora has over the past however many years. Sunscream, Nob, and the other DMs who have invested so much in the lore of the world come and go as their schedules permit, as they should, and I love it when they're available to DM because everything feels so consistent and tangible, but if it weren't for Plethora's sweat, patience, and unswerving helpfulness I don't know that there would be more than three people playing - I wouldn't be. I saw this happen on Silver Spire when Reinstag left, and I could easily see it happen here too.

I'm a player who came to age in the era of Mortzestus, Deider, and Mistcaller. I don't judge current DMs against them in terms of creativity, ability, or imagination - that would be like comparing oranges and whatever, cigars. But I bring those names up because don't want to see Avlis lore become something that's just convenient or that you can flip off like a switch for the sake of an adventure or a plot.

And maybe these contentious issues are coming up now because we're all a little burned out on the last Next Big Thing plot or plots, either because we were fully included or fully excluded. In that vacuum it's easy to insert carefree events, and I'm down with that. But please keep them at that level; you can't contradict or redact established world facts or casually insert a subplot that makes no sense whatsoever without expecting a bit of blowback.

When someone fucks with Mikona on a large scale, for example, where are Raven? The NPCs of that guild are a driving force in the city, even if the player population of the guild is at a low ebb, and I can't imagine why they would just allow things to happen without a public display of resistance. And I expect each nation has an equivalent (well, except maybe Ferrell, those walk-all-over-us bastards). Are these taken into proper account? If so, does everything happen so far behind the scenes that even uber-informed PCs have no idea what's going on?

If someone thinks this is about Plethora or Xeo or whoever, that's just a shame. It's much larger than any one or two or three team members, at least to me. Pleth I already wrote about, and Xeo has broken his back to make things fun and to help people out here and there. His vision for Avlis is both a throwback and of-the-moment. But what Moredo asked is still worth discussing; if the issue is that we're in such dire need of DMs to give Plethora and others a break that we'll hand a wand to anyone who can figure out how have tea-time with farts while giving cookies, that's another matter that might need discussing.
"See, want, take. What else is there, right?"
User avatar
surfer69
Apprentice Scholar
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:21 pm
Timezone: EST

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:22 pm

I have to echo what Mod just said. And can I also add that DMing shouldn't be looked at as work. I've been there, I absolutely loved it, I would do it again. It was as much, if not more fun for me, than playing. The fact that people come back with this idea that it's a ton of work and for the sole enjoyment of the players has to be some hogwash, because if you don't enjoy it, you shouldn't be doing it. And "We do it for the players" shouldn't be a catch all for allowing some straight up ridiculous things to fly.

I appreciate the effort people put into telling a story, taking time away from PC's to do something that I assume is just as much fun for them, I really do, but please don't hide behind it as "work" to shrug off the stuff that goes wrong.
<Grunt> "Vesdrac 25:17.... the path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by ME." *keels*
User avatar
l1t3r
Scholar
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:33 am

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:51 pm

l1t3r wrote:I have to echo what Mod just said. And can I also add that DMing shouldn't be looked at as work. I've been there, I absolutely loved it, I would do it again. It was as much, if not more fun for me, than playing. The fact that people come back with this idea that it's a ton of work and for the sole enjoyment of the players has to be some hogwash, because if you don't enjoy it, you shouldn't be doing it. And "We do it for the players" shouldn't be a catch all for allowing some straight up ridiculous things to fly.

I appreciate the effort people put into telling a story, taking time away from PC's to do something that I assume is just as much fun for them, I really do, but please don't hide behind it as "work" to shrug off the stuff that goes wrong.


It was a mix of both for me. For the players and I wanted to write something and add to the world. I applied to DM because we didn't have much coverage on the EURO side at the time and I wanted to help out. It's even in my DM application I believe.

So I answered a post for DM recruitment to help Avlis. I had a wife pregnant at the time and I took some serious thought into it but MY nature as a person is to help people. If you knew me in real life you hopefully would see that.

So I got into DMing for the wrong reasons then, to help the community.

That's the 100% honest truth. So don't call my reasons hogwash or that I am hiding behind "its hard work".

It's called missing my daughters first two steps on Saturday because I was DMing. That's my choice totally to miss that but I sit here at the moment and think... "Do these players really give a damn?" Answer to that is.. I don't really think so.

So your are wrong, I did join the team to mainly help the player base and Plethora.

You are right, I got into DMing for the wrong reasons.

:)
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:58 pm

You're putting words in my mouth, man. That is not at all what I said.
<Grunt> "Vesdrac 25:17.... the path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by ME." *keels*
User avatar
l1t3r
Scholar
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:33 am

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Vichan Lyonsen » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:20 am

:( Well Shit :(
I've spent most of my money on beer, fast women, and fast cars. The rest I just wasted .
User avatar
Vichan Lyonsen
CCC
CCC
 
Posts: 3602
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:23 am
Location: San Diego PST >GMT-8<
Timezone: pacific

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xaila » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:59 am

Xeo, I don't know what's up but you've taken some stuff said on the forums here awfully personally the past few days. I noticed it in the crafting thread as well.

If you're missing your child's real life milestones, then yes, you probably do really need to take a step back and evaluate your choices. But they are, in the end, your choices. You can't come on here and try to guilt trip players who you aren't seeing eye to eye with using that card. It's entirely inappropriate to try and pin that guilt and cheap appeal to emotions on others.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh of me. I know you didn't intend it as such and it most likely came out in the heat of the moment, but that sort of thing is actually rather emotionally manipulative. I know I wouldn't want any part in being DM'd by someone who will then throw in my face later that I should be grateful they wasted time on me because it was a major personal sacrifice. I would much rather a favorite DM quit and take care of their personal lives than martyr themselves (and guilt trip others).

No one twisted your arm. None of this was about you or directed at you until you, apparently, made it so.
Last edited by Xaila on Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
We're all burning out, fading away
Like the passing light of day...

Player of:
Solveig Tcharov - Friendly Fire Award '11, Skywalker Award '11
Ambrose Longstreet
Maliha
User avatar
Xaila
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 1414
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:43 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Timezone: EST (-5/-4 summer)

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:07 am

Xaila wrote:Xeo, I don't know what's up but you've taken some stuff said on the forums here awfully personally the past few days. I noticed it in the crafting thread as well.

If you're missing your child's real life milestones, then yes, you probably do really need to take a step back and evaluate your choices. But they are, in the end, your choices. You can't come on here and try to guilt trip players who you aren't seeing eye to eye with using that card. It's entirely inappropriate to try and pin that guilt and cheap appeal to emotions on others.

No one twisted your arm. None of this was about you or directed at you until you, apparently, made it so.


+1
Comrades Fill No Glass For Me - Stephen Foster
Oh! comrades, fill no glass for me
To drown my soul in liquid flame
For if I drank, the toast should be
To blighted fortune health and fame.
User avatar
silverfields2
QA Tester
QA Tester
 
Posts: 6081
Images: 38
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:16 am
Location: Ohio
Timezone: GMT -5

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:00 am

silverfields2 wrote:
Xaila wrote:Xeo, I don't know what's up but you've taken some stuff said on the forums here awfully personally the past few days. I noticed it in the crafting thread as well.

If you're missing your child's real life milestones, then yes, you probably do really need to take a step back and evaluate your choices. But they are, in the end, your choices. You can't come on here and try to guilt trip players who you aren't seeing eye to eye with using that card. It's entirely inappropriate to try and pin that guilt and cheap appeal to emotions on others.

No one twisted your arm. None of this was about you or directed at you until you, apparently, made it so.


+1


Oh I am not guilt tripping players. If you read what I wrote, I said it was my choice and not anyone else's.

I was expressing my view and opinion and perhaps showing a level of what it takes to be on the team.
Hoping that players read this and see there is some real sacrifice by team members through Avlis history to bring this world of Avlis to life.

So again with certain behaviours from players and people sitting on very high horses, I just wonder to myself was the choice really worth it to miss those steps for some of you.

At the moment that answer is no. That's why I've done the sensible thing and stepped down from the team because I do not want to grow into a Troll. We have a few around that need a bit of fire or acid magic.

So I find it outstanding that some of you are "deal with it", "don't whinge", "suck it up" and the rest.

So I don't agree with you and I believe and I'm allowed to air my opinion here... The level of respect sometimes Avlis players have shown the team is shocking at times. There are plenty of fantastic, very kind and enjoyable people but there are a few that are not.

That's life... But that doesn't mean I will sit there quietly and let it happen.

I got someone the sack at work for bullying last week. Try to pull out the Gay Card and acuse an innocent man with a family he was bullying. All because this guy was forging emails and lying through his teeth.

I stand up for people which I believe are either innocent or do not deserve the level of treatment from others.

That is who I am, so don't like it. Good luck to you. :D
Last edited by Xeo on Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:18 am

l1t3r wrote:You're putting words in my mouth, man. That is not at all what I said.


If I have then I do sincerely apologise. That's how I read it and again I apologise.

If we was in a pub with a pint of beer or some soft drink, this could be easier to communicate and understand.

This is my last post about this subject. I believe I have expressed my view points and I love Avlis and alot of players in it. Some great people here, so I am not going to ruin the experience for myself or for others I will add. Continuing a posting tennis match. I don't have anything more to say.

Game on
Silk wrote:I don't know, I think flinging poo in a catapult could be pretty damn effective.
I know if I was on the battlefield and I got hit by a pile of shit... I'd probably go home.
User avatar
Xeo
Master Sage
 
Posts: 6368
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Pirate Cave
Timezone: UK

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:35 am

For what its worth, what I got out of that AtT thread was that some people who had not been at the event told other people who were not at the event what they thought happened at the event, but not what actually happened IC. And then a spurious and pithy question got the response it deserved.

As one of the people whose more serious PC was at most of that event, neither I, nor my PC, ever thought for more than a "wait, what??" moment that this 'cock' ring of Goerethar was ever a truly holy relic, or had anything really to do with Gorethar other than someone (Confounder) had named it as such, and an earnest Goretharite had somehow (Confounder) come across it. Then! With much eye-rolling but a surprising amount of humor, the High Poobah figured out how to kill two birds with one kenku by having Fellock amend for his theft by hauling the thing to Mt Smokes and destroying it.

It both surprises, genuinely surprises, and saddens me that anyone who has been part of this community for any length of time thought that this was truly, seriously, a holy artifact of this nature. (but it is 2am, everything is either way too serious, or incredibly hilarious at 2am, so perhaps I am overthinking how much people are reacting to this. I'll just pretend I didn't read all of the above, that's it.)

Though I am much less surprised that people could not believe that the Church of Gorethar had some sense of humor, ah well. (Yeah... actually now I think of it, that doesn't surprise me when I remember that Gorethar caused a man to be a walking corpse, only being able to move his body as a puppet by his own psionic will. A cock-ring is the least of my IC worries, when that sort of punishment was dealt out by a Goodly god? Oy vey, crikey, and sheesh. Makes my PC very happy to have her Drangonari-Cha'reth. ( Oh my paws and whiskers, a drangonari Cha'rethite who became Cha'reth?!? However could the team ever approve that!?!) ((Teasing, teasing. That plotline was amazing, but when I have to explain that in-game, I get a lot of tells asking about it.))

:glaskugel: :lol: :o
“If you can’t take the heat, don’t tickle the dragon.”
User avatar
GunnJ
CCC
CCC
 
Posts: 2257
Images: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:05 am

Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Plethora » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:13 am

So the start of this story is, Fellok stole a bunch of silverware.. from a gorathite altar..

GunnJ wrote:For what its worth, what I got out of that AtT thread was that some people who had not been at the event told other people who were not at the event what they thought happened at the event, but not what actually happened IC. And then a spurious and pithy question got the response it deserved.

As one of the people whose more serious PC was at most of that event, neither I, nor my PC, ever thought for more than a "wait, what??" moment that this 'cock' ring of Gorethar was ever a truly holy relic, or had anything really to do with Gorethar other than someone (Confounder) had named it as such, and an earnest Goretharite had somehow (Confounder) come across it.
Then! With much eye-rolling but a surprising amount of humor, the High Poobah figured out how to kill two birds with one kenku by having Fellock amend for his theft by hauling the thing to Mt Smokes and destroying it.

It both surprises, genuinely surprises, and saddens me that anyone who has been part of this community for any length of time thought that this was truly, seriously, a holy artifact of this nature. (but it is 2am, everything is either way too serious, or incredibly hilarious at 2am, so perhaps I am overthinking how much people are reacting to this. I'll just pretend I didn't read all of the above, that's it.)

Though I am much less surprised that people could not believe that the Church of Gorethar had some sense of humor, ah well. (Yeah... actually now I think of it, that doesn't surprise me when I remember that Gorethar caused a man to be a walking corpse, only being able to move his body as a puppet by his own psionic will. A cock-ring is the least of my IC worries, when that sort of punishment was dealt out by a Goodly god? Oy vey, crikey, and sheesh. Makes my PC very happy to have her Drangonari-Cha'reth. ( Oh my paws and whiskers, a drangonari Cha'rethite who became Cha'reth?!? However could the team ever approve that!?!) ((Teasing, teasing. That plotline was amazing, but when I have to explain that in-game, I get a lot of tells asking about it.))

:glaskugel: :lol: :o


Hey all
First of all, welcome back Moredo ! Dont feed the trolls ! xx
Your dming wasn't perfect either, so let cut some slack here for an overblown, and quite frankly ridiculous overview of one event, most of which here were not at, and are blowing steam into because it suits the moment.. 6 months later.

And GunnJ..
well, ive been writing a response, but i think you covered this well enough. Ta
(including the church of Gorathar sense of humor)
Seeing as you were actually there..

One event out of literally hundreds.. mistaken, and turned to some sort of ... i dunno, whatever this is people.. right?
What is this any ways? you keep arguing, over things you had no part of of.. so I am unsure as to what you want here..
So I will start with

If anyone, has felt grieved or upset by this event, that has been poorly disproportionalised, by people, not at the event, or new coming to one event 6 months later..

I sincerely apologise, on behalf of Myself, and my team, over the perceived cock ring of Gorathar event. :)
Im sorry, it was light, it was silly, and it was based around one players words and events. We winged something, it was fun.
)


One event..

Is there anything else you would like?
This seems for a big thread for again, one out of literally hundreds of dm events.
I don't believe one event, can talk for all of the events int he last however long

Again, my apologises, for those that missed it. And again, my apologises for those that weren't there, and have been offended.
To actually believe there is a cockring of Gorathar as LORE?? ...
is.. i dunno. Im dumfounded by this vitriol, and upset.
And I am sorry.
I never meant any any harm, I will stand by my record on this. You all know me well enough.

And pleased, stop targeting Fellock. We ran something fun for the character.. its not his fault. He got DMed. Fellock, Im sorry if any of this made you feel bad.

Was there anything else the playerbase needs out of this situation? Let me know.

~Pleth

*winged something* hur hur at own kenku pun
Well, i've heard about the fella you've been dancing with, all over the neighborhood..
...why didn't you ask me baby? Or didn't you think I could..
User avatar
Plethora
Head DM
Head DM
 
Posts: 23776
Images: 10
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: GMT +11 (DST in effect)
Timezone: +11 (DST)
DM Avatar: Verossa

PreviousNext

Return to The Avlis Project: General Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Moredo, Pekarion