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Serious vs. Silly

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Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Moredo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:57 am

Plethora wrote:
Demonlady wrote:I have to say that the sheer fount of descriptive narrative that Fellock comes up with and his player makes up is one of the things I really enjoy about Avlis. :D
Many kudos.

And it's amazing what can happen to something that happened in an event as well.
Some things try to lead a whole new life afterwards *grins*


Agreed

Yes, sometime, I do silly events and tongue in cheek things. It true, silliness happens. I also do a lot of serious and horribly scarring events, so I hope it all evens out.
That being said....

Its great to have a supportive and fun player base to work with. It is rare I log out and dont think.. well, that was fun! Even if it was silly .. or scarring
Its a shame that a small minority seems to believe everything should be serious and have little to no sense of humor.
Surely RL is serious enough, that we can relax and do something that is in the name of fun on occassion

If we would like to keep up these type of threads, in retaliation, of a good time, or a bit of ridicule,
Then I stand Guilty as charged. I am sure you wont run out of examples, so go nuts.

Game on <[8)


This thread was started in AtT, but I copied it here because I want to have a discussion on this. What are peoples thoughts on this? To a certain extent, I agree with Plethora - not all plots, quests or lore needs to be super serious - I've DM'ed silly/fun events in the past, and had great fun in humor filled events as a player.

That said, I also feel that it could be taken a bit too far.

Quests with items like Gorethars Cock Ring (if I understood that post correctly) kinda flies in the face of what makes Avlis so great; the way the years deep lore makes it super immersive. I would have had no idea how to play a somewhat serious character in such a plot (much less if my character was a follower of Gorethar). Personally, it would totally kill my immersion, and kinda cheapen what I feel Avlis is all about.

These are just my thoughts though, so feel free to ignore, but I am interested in what y'all others think! :)
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: dashdot » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:20 pm

I'm all for silly moments, after all, it's a game. There is knowing when to toe the line, and when to tone it down and get srs. (or run away)

That said, when I heard about the Cockring of Gorethar item ... *lost for words* ... just, utter cringe. I'm so glad my Paladin wasn't there. So if you're asking if it bothered other players, then yes, it bothers/ed me and I hope I never run across anything like that personally.

:kotz:

I came to Avlis a while ago and I've enjoyed the gritty RP that has the real possibility to have an influence on your character (or vice-versa) and the world. There's a ton that can be done with the setting, it doesn't need to devolve into sex/sextoy jokes/RP - there's a lot more to life/the fantasy world than that. I'm glad they said it 'didn't happen' or that it got destroyed in a fire, but IMO, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, because we all know that you can't undo things that easily. It's like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:53 pm

This was a single event that happened about 6 months and it began as a quest style “Lord of the Rings” for a bit of fun and light heart entertainment. PC has a demonic ring that talks to him, takes said ring to a mountain and drop it into some fire… Simple. I popped in as a DM during that event to watch over and there was nothing that I sow grossly offensive.
There were 20 + players on that event and were showing clear signs that the PC’s involved were happy to run along with it. They spent a few hours following the event and if there was an issue, any said player could of simple walked away and logged off. Wrote a PM and sent it into the team for discussion and review.

Now this event while running had an innuendo which developed on the spot. You have been a DM before and you full well know, DM’s make snap decisions on things to help the plot/event be entertaining.

Verlog is full of innuendoes on the NPC’s scripts and we have had the elusive M’Chekian Beaver which is an innuendo to a furry fanny. You simple cannot switch the “acceptance” button on and off when you feel like it. No player was forced into an RPing situation that they were uncomfortable with and also it was not a major plot or part of any character development. It was a bit of fun and play on words event.

If this event was a common occurrence and happening all the time, then I would agree to your comment of “Personally, it would totally kill my immersion, and kinda cheapen what I feel Avlis is about.” I don’t believe you was there as a PC, I might be wrong here but the event was not as drool and drass as its being portrayed.

I will again point out this event was 6 months back and there has been no PM’s or emails of complaint to us. If there was, it would have been discussed Team side and actioned.

The team treat the players like adults and sometimes there can be adult like content but we are not talking about cybering events. It was a play on words here.

So my question is, what are you hoping to achieve from this discussion thread?
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: dashdot » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:12 pm

I'm just going to add:


A ring is one thing...

An alleged holy artifact of one of the Nine Greater Gods turning up as a sex toy is a whole 'nother level of :censored:
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Grunt » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:17 pm

With the dearth of proper write-ups of events (mentioned in another thread), and the appreciation of those who do the writeups in mind...
viewtopic.php?f=174&t=135457

It's difficult enough to get information out there for the other PCs who didn't make the event. If it's filled with lies, or legends with no basis in (Avlis) reality, or is getting a "it didn't happen" brushoff, that's a waste of the writer's time. It becomes difficult to balance what is actually going on in Avlis, vs. what happens on a one off trip. Some nudging that "hey this story isn't to be believed" towards any characters with an INT score above 6 might help, and get them talking about the veracity of the person spinning the IC tale/legend about the pearl necklace of poornany with the 69 pearls.

If the Cock Ring of Gorethar was not the Cock Ring of Gorethar, then why would it be given to Fellock to free him of any guilt for his crime against the church? Why the long "Trip to Mt. Doom to destroy the One ring" scenario? This was a potentially important moment in the character's development, doing right in the eyes of a Paladin (to save his own skin). It shouldn't be whitewashed away as "eh, it was Saturday night".

The only answer seen in that question was from Fellock's player: "The ring is both real, and not real. It only exists in the special, extremely silly sub-reality that Fellock exists on, and thus it becomes real when you're in proximity to him, but then ceases to be real when he leaves. I am completely, 100% sure this is possibly accurate." That logic opens up a weird can of worms inside of a Pandora's box, inside of a mummy's tomb.

I don't know what others are trying to get out of this thread, but I'd say my goal is a better understanding of what we can expect of "Real Avlis" (ex: The Bandit situation in M'Chek, and subsequent ripples across the political landscape there) vs. "Tongue in Cheek Avlis", and how to tell the difference between both more easily as far as what is "part of Avlis" going forward. For a returning player like Moredo, the new(er) silly stuff may be a bit of a culture shock. I don't know for sure, but he can elaborate, I guess.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:18 pm

I was not at the original Cock-ring event but was at a re-telling that I tried to extract myself from as fast as ICly possible as the re-telling was over the line for me along with the stories of the 'stink in Elysia' which I avoided also. :kotz:

I like drama, I like a little silly, I like politics. I even like innuendo. I am very careful with PC to PC conflict. I try to walk away from what seems overly gross and overtly sexual as much as I can. I try to keep it IC though instead of just dropping my connection in the middle.

+1 to what Grunt said.

It is very hard to just 'brush' somethings off because they didn't really happen but they did. I think that a little bit of care needs to be taken when you are invoking artifacts of the gods. It's easier for me to brush off some dumb hedge mage or gnomish inventor with a dumb idea that goes a little bit wrong.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: galen_macbyrne » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:47 pm

Me? Guilty as charged, I was at the silly event, and happy to be there - my alt Arglebargle is no stranger to silly stuff happening, heck he's a Forianite Wild mage with delusions of Confounder grandeur and spends most combats fighting with a scimitar in his hands like a zweihander. He says the first thing that I think of and half the time it's a realism breaker of non-sequiteurs and anachronistic. But I, and he, had a blast, it was a fun night. And the only attack spell he threw all night, was the aforementioned one Grease spell. Which the alert DM totally used to advance the story. Yay, kudos.

As a once-off event? It was fun, and totally Fellockian. If I'd been there with another, more serious alt? Maybe less fun for me. Or maybe not - even Garthond wore a tutu in an ad hoc performance of the ballet Swan Lake for a vampire wedding. Still have the invitation from that one. :+)
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:54 pm

We do our very very best to make the world alive and enjoyable for all.

We are all human and we make choices and decisions which we feel are best at the time and on the spot. Again not everything is going to be everyone's taste or sense of humour. That's what makes the world of Avlis interesting, the many great roleplayers that play here.

BUT

Hindsight is a wonderful thing here.

The playerbase scares the shit out of me as DM at the moment. Fearing that I might put a foot wrong or offend someone or do something I game that the feel is not right lore wise or I should do this and should do that.

This is not fun for me at all and it's not fair. I don't deserve this as a person and others too.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: pallizard » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:59 pm

i just know DM on Avlis are intelligent enough and wise to know if the plot they run will disrupt the fun of the player base. I'm almost certain that if a bunch of gorethite were in attendance, the story would not have been the same. It was a silly story with silly characters. I see no wrong in that.
Of course, when they re-tell the story, it's up to anyone there to do whatever they wish with it.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Moredo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:12 pm

I wasn't there as a PC, and I only used this event as an example of something that I (personally) feel isn't right for Avlis. Now I am not the great arbiter of what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed, but as we are a somewhat small group of players I feel I have a right to voice my opinion, and ask others what they think.

What I am trying to figure out by this thread, is if my views of this is outside of the norm - if that is the case, then I know more about the current state of the game. As I said, I enjoy developing a character that is influenced by the events that transpire on the server - that is what has made Avlis great for me (and why I always keep returning).

Deider and Liephus' jokes in the Underdark are well within what I think is OK, same with the elusive M'Chekian Beaver. For what it's worth, one of my favourite characters is Basto - who can't stop talking about his mom. Those are the aspects of the game that are silly and fun. However, when we're starting to talk about Cock Rings of one of the Nine, it goes a bit overboard.

I think silverfields2 summed up my thoughts on this:
silverfields2 wrote:It's easier for me to brush off some dumb hedge mage or gnomish inventor with a dumb idea that goes a little bit wrong.


I still wouldn't love the plot, but I wouldn't want to start a topic about it.

Xeo wrote:This is not fun for me at all and it's not fair. I don't deserve this as a person and others too.


Respectfully voicing an opinion that you disagree with is well within what is fair, Xeo. We've had this community for 15 years, and good communication between players and staff is one of the things that has kept it alive.
Last edited by Moredo on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Grunt » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:22 pm

pallizard wrote:i just know DM on Avlis are intelligent enough and wise to know if the plot they run will disrupt the fun of the player base. I'm almost certain that if a bunch of gorethite were in attendance, the story would not have been the same. It was a silly story with silly characters. I see no wrong in that.
Of course, when they re-tell the story, it's up to anyone there to do whatever they wish with it.


Sure, if people want to whitewash away any silliness as just that, that's their choice. Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events. Also, any criticisms or commentary on my part here are meant constructively.

The main driving force, and co-pilot with Fellock on the Fellowship of the Cock Ring, was indeed a Paladin of Gorethar PC. So, there's that to contend with, I guess?
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:28 pm

Grunt wrote:
pallizard wrote:i just know DM on Avlis are intelligent enough and wise to know if the plot they run will disrupt the fun of the player base. I'm almost certain that if a bunch of gorethite were in attendance, the story would not have been the same. It was a silly story with silly characters. I see no wrong in that.
Of course, when they re-tell the story, it's up to anyone there to do whatever they wish with it.


Sure, if people want to whitewash away any silliness as just that, that's their choice. Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events. Also, any criticisms or commentary on my part here are meant constructively.

The main driving force, and co-pilot with Fellock on the Fellowship of the Cock Ring, was indeed a Paladin of Gorethar PC. So, there's that to contend with, I guess?


What would you like too see happen or be done after this discussion? What's the end game here?
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Grunt » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Xeo wrote:
Grunt wrote:
pallizard wrote:i just know DM on Avlis are intelligent enough and wise to know if the plot they run will disrupt the fun of the player base. I'm almost certain that if a bunch of gorethite were in attendance, the story would not have been the same. It was a silly story with silly characters. I see no wrong in that.
Of course, when they re-tell the story, it's up to anyone there to do whatever they wish with it.


Sure, if people want to whitewash away any silliness as just that, that's their choice. Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events. Also, any criticisms or commentary on my part here are meant constructively.

The main driving force, and co-pilot with Fellock on the Fellowship of the Cock Ring, was indeed a Paladin of Gorethar PC. So, there's that to contend with, I guess?


What would you like too see happen or be done after this discussion? What's the end game here?


Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events.

Put me in that camp, I guess. :) My first post in the thread explains a bit more.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:36 pm

Sorry Xeo, my comments were not about you at all.

I was giving my feedback on my Avlis experience and what I like and dislike about it so that you would know.

I know that all DM's have 'their thing they are good at' and sometimes it takes time to figure out what that is. I liked your zombie bard plot. Even though I wasn't there, I kinda got to participate in a way. I thought that was pretty cool. I was turned off by the cock-ring story even as much as appreciate Fellock's 'verbal' abilities and his amazing character.

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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:44 pm

Grunt wrote:
Xeo wrote:
Grunt wrote:
pallizard wrote:i just know DM on Avlis are intelligent enough and wise to know if the plot they run will disrupt the fun of the player base. I'm almost certain that if a bunch of gorethite were in attendance, the story would not have been the same. It was a silly story with silly characters. I see no wrong in that.
Of course, when they re-tell the story, it's up to anyone there to do whatever they wish with it.


Sure, if people want to whitewash away any silliness as just that, that's their choice. Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events. Also, any criticisms or commentary on my part here are meant constructively.

The main driving force, and co-pilot with Fellock on the Fellowship of the Cock Ring, was indeed a Paladin of Gorethar PC. So, there's that to contend with, I guess?


What would you like too see happen or be done after this discussion? What's the end game here?


Others may have a bit more of a stake in seeing some anchors as far as lore and world/local events.

Put me in that camp, I guess. :) My first post in the thread explains a bit more.


But we are talking about a one off event 6 months ago. If we are talking here about regular events of this flavor and frequency, then I would be concerned too but it isn't.

There is not an issue I feel that warrantys a debate of this magnitude. I feel like something far more sinister is at work here.

Again it was a single event that a large portion of the participanting adults had no issue. If there was a player at the time too issue with it, then a following PM regarding it should of ensued.

So I'm really puzzled why now 6 months later, a discussion and issue has been made of it.

One event does not sum up Avlis and it's play style.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:48 pm

silverfields2 wrote:Sorry Xeo, my comments were not about you at all.

I was giving my feedback on my Avlis experience and what I like and dislike about it so that you would know.

I know that all DM's have 'their thing they are good at' and sometimes it takes time to figure out what that is. I liked your zombie bard plot. Even though I wasn't there, I kinda got to participate in a way. I thought that was pretty cool. I was turned off by the cock-ring story even as much as appreciate Fellock's 'verbal' abilities and his amazing character.

If we don't speak up, how will anyone know?


I understand your point and there is absolutely nothing wrong with speaking up but....

Don't you think it's a bit odd we are only discussing this 6 months later?

I 100% understand that it might not be of everyone's tastes but we are a multi cultural community.

In Holland prostitution is legal, in the UK it's not. My point being, everyone is different and we might not agree with other pere's tastes doesn't mean that they are done with any ill intent.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Moredo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:56 pm

Xeo wrote:But we are talking about a one off event 6 months ago. If we are talking here about regular events of this flavor and frequency, then I would be concerned too but it isn't.

There is not an issue I feel that warrantys a debate of this magnitude. I feel like something far more sinister is at work here.

Again it was a single event that a large portion of the participanting adults had no issue. If there was a player at the time too issue with it, then a following PM regarding it should of ensued.

So I'm really puzzled why now 6 months later, a discussion and issue has been made of it.

One event does not sum up Avlis and it's play style.


If I had been playing six months ago, I would have posted about it then. However since I didn't play then, and there was an AtT thread about it now - where I learned about it - I decided to post about it now. In addition, my post is not specially targeted at this event, but with regards to Plethoras AtT answer; that there are silly events, and there are serious events.

There should be both, but there is a line where it gets beyond silly, my line is somewhere before Godly Cock Rings. That is what this discussion is about, not about this event.

Please read the posts as they stand, and refrain from attributing malice to them
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:01 pm

Avlis does not have a 24 hour news cycle. It's closer to six months.

Someone just learned about it and asked for opinions so I answered.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: krackq » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:03 pm

What breaks immersion for me may not break immersion for others so its all relative in my opinion. I know some players are pretty hardcore about immersion to the point I've gotten tells from other players actually telling me how I should play. That probably turns me off more than anything.

There's been a few times that I've gone wacky or a bit out of character but sometimes its a direct correlation to my mood in real life (and sometimes how much I've had to drink!). I've been in some funny and lighthearted Hands outings before that were not terribly ic but just a good fun outing. I've been in super serious stuff too. I try to judge based on the feel of the entire group if I can. If I'm in a super serious mood but it looks like the situation might be very lighthearted or even closer to the line and I might not enjoy it, then I'll make an ic excuse to leave and do something else. I can't and shouldn't expect everyone to play to the standards of my current mood and its not my job to tell people how to play. I dont know if there are some baselines that everyone should adhere to besides "In Character" but that's a huge gray area to define what exactly is in character. There are some common sense things that apply obviously.. like current themes or maybe objects and things from Real Life that might not make sense in this setting but after that it becomes a big blob of gray area that is different for everyone.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: krackq » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:15 pm

Speaking in general, it's also possible that both dm's and players can make mistakes too in events, in their actions and reactions and rp. I'm not judging this or any others. I've seen stuff retroactively fixed or changed by dm's before.. and I've seen players send ooc messages or tells apologizing for something or wanting to alter something that didn't work. I'm guilty of all of the player side mistakes more than a few times. Constructive communication is key for addressing and fixing things when needed and as mentioned which is why Avlis has been around for awhile.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: godrevadac » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:18 pm

Just putting this out there...

Cicerious is my main and this made me think a lot about the community'a reception of his humor. I've NEVER and don't make sex related jokes, too young for that BUT I do receive many tells that are both positive and negative in response to what he does as someone who is constantly on the humorous side. As a pure bard, and mostly good one at that, much of his responsibility is to keep people entertained and cheerful in the face of danger.

I don't like to think of him as a 'side character' he does have goals and yes, he can be 'Cierious'. The way he is played is supposed to get him to a stand out which I believe is part of his egoism and humor. So that'a where I'm at on this whole thing - a fun character with deeper truths. However, I haven't even been playing on here for two years so if this bothers an old player, please tell me.
Last edited by godrevadac on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:34 pm

Moredo wrote:
Xeo wrote:But we are talking about a one off event 6 months ago. If we are talking here about regular events of this flavor and frequency, then I would be concerned too but it isn't.

There is not an issue I feel that warrantys a debate of this magnitude. I feel like something far more sinister is at work here.

Again it was a single event that a large portion of the participanting adults had no issue. If there was a player at the time too issue with it, then a following PM regarding it should of ensued.

So I'm really puzzled why now 6 months later, a discussion and issue has been made of it.

One event does not sum up Avlis and it's play style.


If I had been playing six months ago, I would have posted about it then. However since I didn't play then, and there was an AtT thread about it now - where I learned about it - I decided to post about it now. In addition, my post is not specially targeted at this event, but with regards to Plethoras AtT answer; that there are silly events, and there are serious events.

There should be both, but there is a line where it gets beyond silly, my line is somewhere before Godly Cock Rings. That is what this discussion is about, not about this event.

Please read the posts as they stand, and refrain from attributing malice to them


I feel that there is and weather that is coming from you or not, I believe there is. That's my opinion and you have opened a discussion thread on it and I am discussing it.

It's important I feel to put that event from 6 months ago in contex first.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xaila » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:40 pm

krackq wrote:What breaks immersion for me may not break immersion for others so its all relative in my opinion. I know some players are pretty hardcore about immersion to the point I've gotten tells from other players actually telling me how I should play. That probably turns me off more than anything.

There's been a few times that I've gone wacky or a bit out of character but sometimes its a direct correlation to my mood in real life (and sometimes how much I've had to drink!). I've been in some funny and lighthearted Hands outings before that were not terribly ic but just a good fun outing. I've been in super serious stuff too. I try to judge based on the feel of the entire group if I can. If I'm in a super serious mood but it looks like the situation might be very lighthearted or even closer to the line and I might not enjoy it, then I'll make an ic excuse to leave and do something else. I can't and shouldn't expect everyone to play to the standards of my current mood and its not my job to tell people how to play. I dont know if there are some baselines that everyone should adhere to besides "In Character" but that's a huge gray area to define what exactly is in character. There are some common sense things that apply obviously.. like current themes or maybe objects and things from Real Life that might not make sense in this setting but after that it becomes a big blob of gray area that is different for everyone.


RPing based on mood and how much you've had to drink actually sounds pretty IC to me for him!

I've been in events where characters were giggling and making sexual innuendo jokes when the party was literally surrounded by slaughtered corpses, and not characters with C or E in their alignment. Nor was it nervous jitters/gallows humor. I won't tell people how to RP either, but that kind of thing always just made me want to walk off because it kills immersion dead.
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:45 pm

silverfields2 wrote:Avlis does not have a 24 hour news cycle. It's closer to six months.

Someone just learned about it and asked for opinions so I answered.


100% and I've asked a question to why has this come about now?

Absolutely nothing wrong in giving your opinion on it and I would never encourage anyone not too.

I am just wondering why has this all come about? What's the reason here, for something that happened 6 months ago and wasn't an issue at the time or brought up...

I wonder why... X:|
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Re: Serious vs. Silly

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:08 pm

I feel like that question has been answered more than once, Xeo.

Personally, I don't play much anymore, mostly because of holy bawls busy RL stuff...but there is an element of silliness that has become prominent in the past year or so that doesn't fit my character, nor my play style, really. To be honest, I'm cool with silly, there needs to be silly from time to time, and I have occasionally broken character in specific events due to RL mood, beer consumption, etc. It's not right, character wise, but it happens. The issue I have is when silly bleeds over and disrupts the deeper, more serious, avlis lore. Avlis isn't a family guy episode, it doesn't just go away after it's done, and I think for the most part everyone does a great job of conveying this. It IS the one offs that are more likely to disrupt the deeper story, and it's those one offs that need to be carefully administered. I think that's all I really want to say.
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