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Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

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Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Ninjar » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:03 pm

In days of yore, a PC couldn't take a shit without a 15 paragraph post detailing their supper, the shape, and the color of the movement, but these days we're hard pressed to get anything beyond character journals (not necessarily a complaint, these guys are contributing).

Where has the impetus to interact and spread knowledge gone? I know that Pleth runs a weekly pub crawl, but I can't recall the last time I saw anyone post anything about it beyond some rave post that took 5 seconds to write. Where have the days gone that saw an IC post for a DM event? The last post I saw from a dungeon crawl was from some loudmouthed kenku going on about doom this and that. Frankly, I don't think selective dissemination works with a player base the size we have, and cannot see the use of the boards if they aren't used to fuel RP outside of the actual game.

If the boards are simply a vehicle for the calendar that records the start of all our events, what are all these private forums good for?

Having said that, since this isn't a rant, how do we fix this? What can we do to stimulate this IC interaction? Does anyone have an idea about why we've come to the current state? I know there is Hot Avlis Action, praise kkns, to be had. Maybe we just need to add a bit of kindling to get the fire going.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Sunscream » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:20 pm

I don't know if over the years people got lazy, grew afraid of having a plot stolen, just started to rely on a few key event writer-uppers (because we do have some), or what. If someone started here within the last few years then they probably haven't seen how active the tavern boards used to be. Speaking of that here's an assignment for people: Go to the Mikona Tavern board and jump to the oldest pages. Start reading random threads.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Ronan » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:56 pm

The current method of transmitting information is verbal - Players log in, talk about current events with those they trust to discuss it with, and don't put it in writing. I agree, particularly from the DM-side of things, that this is not an ideal turn of events - ongoing stories I've written can fall apart when information isn't getting from person to person.

As a player, my character has grown distrustful of governments and the general population for -reasons- so I usually keep reports to the guild boards that are appropriately relevant, but I do post if it's something a group would find relevant. There are quite a few others who post on their relevant guild boards as well.

From the DM-side of things, if I'm running events that aren't folks' personal refresh/AMS/etc stuff, I will ask if someone's willing to do a writeup from now on.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: dashdot » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:04 pm

Ninjar wrote:The last post I saw from a dungeon crawl was from some loudmouthed kenku going on about doom this and that.


Teehee. I had fun with that! It was a stupid post, but from an IC perspective I figured my bad bard bird had to document some epic actions that happened in game that were just really impressive to behold, and that I fully expected to survive about 15 seconds of, but somehow miraculously survived, haha. (thanks Kassha!)

On a serious note though; IC board activity has been something I've been thinking about recently. I've noticed that a lot of private boards are used for a lot of OOC communication and OOC chat (event coordination, or talking about renovations to guild housing), but not much IC stuff, unless it's been initiated by a DM (in a fairly recent example on this, I saw posts from several players of PCs I've not run across in game in several months/years and would have assumed were out/MIA) It is a real shame, especially as I've seen some really great posts from characters, and of course due to time zones/general availability sometimes the only way I'd know what's happened with a PC is to read their post about whatever that PC has been up to.

To address questions:

How do we fix it? Be more aware of it. This thread might already be a great start! Perhaps consider rewarding really good write ups on the boards (though this is probably done already to be fair - and I'm a bit against this anyway, if you're only writing something up for phat lewts from DMs then just doom on you!)

What can we do to stimulate this IC interaction? Honestly, I don't know. Maybe we just need a kick up the butt OOCly :) There are already a ton of things going on that I know of that aren't documented (at least in the boards I see) and I don't think it should be a team task, they have enough to deal with on that side of the curtain. Interesting question to think about.

Does anyone have an idea about why we've come to the current state? Cliques/groups wanting to keep things to themselves, I've been a little bit guilty of this recently myself, and what Ronan said with his post about not trusting anyone, I can see that being a common theme with many characters. Maybe even trying to avoid huge walls of text in IC posts to keep it easy to read and encourage others that it's not about having a minimum length to post something in character.

Actually, I was talking about this with Thienna a few days ago, for those huge IC reports, maybe consider having a summary of the post, (like a TL;DR) in one nifty paragraph then write away to your heart's content elsewhere. (but this means you're already writing up posts and whatnot, which might not be as useful in this thread.)
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Sarmanos » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:09 pm

I have a short bit that can help. Actually read other people's IC posts. Every time someone starts asking about recent events in game that were posted about, but then they say they didn't read it to the writer, that writer wonders a bit more why they are even taking their valuable time to write posts about events or whatever else save for their own reference.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:30 pm

Ah man, you're right, this isn't rants! *Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete ... Delete*

Personally, I did not get tired of writing posts. I got tired of the attitude towards post writers.

Oh, but comparing people's hard work with a comment about shit, that's real helpful, right there. That strikes just the right tone, right out of the gate.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Ninjar » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:44 pm

GunnJ wrote:Ah man, you're right, this isn't rants! *Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete Delete ... Delete*

Personally, I did not get tired of writing posts. I got tired of the attitude towards post writers.

Oh, but comparing people's hard work with a comment about shit, that's real helpful, right there. That strikes just the right tone, right out of the gate.


It seemed a bit of a lighthearted intro was needed to save my post from appearing too ranty. Sadly, not all parties are in agreement }8)

To elaborate, yes you continued to write IC stuff. No I was not complaining about you. Fin.\\

EDIT: But not Finn, Kappa (( This is also a joke ))
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Ronan » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:50 pm

Well, I'm expecting a bunch of IC reports on any plots attended from a certain Ebony now :lol: :lol: (Hopefully not about excrement.)
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:57 pm

I can only really answer for me, and mostly, nothing of interest to the wider world really happens that much anymore to me. That's not a complaint - I deliberately keep my character(s) out of the spotlight these days when I play them because past experiences trying to get very involved became stressful to me. So I when I do RPz it tends to be more informal and personal interactions with other characters that nobody else would really give a crap about. I feel like any IC posts along those lines would be pretty self serving and boring to people who aren't me. And I don't think Avlis needs more "let's make it all about me!" stuff. It's why I keep a whole lot of my personal character building/ideas stuff to myself.

Oh and I admit to doing that whole 'relying on a few key event writers' thing sunscream mentioned. It's an easy trap to fall into when you get someone who just does writeups so much better than you do (and usually gets to it faster). It causes people burnout though so I'm trying to make a conscious effort to be more proactive with info posts if it becomes relevant again in the future.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:12 pm

I am going to be blunt and straight to the point...

If you spend the time writing up my DM events and getting active on the boards on my plots/DMing... I won't forget that or YOU. Do you want to know why?

It saves me the time having to do it and I'll explain a bit of insight into me as a DM and I only speak for me understood?

My time is really pressed like many people in this world but throw in being a DM on Avlis with that and it takes out a huge amount of time and dedication I've discovered. The work these guys/girls (and ex-team members too) do is unbelievable. Seriously... Now I've stepped over and joined the team. It's seriously opened my eyes... :shock:

Here's a list of stuff that I try to do:

- Read PM's (I hate to think what Pleth's PM box is like :flucht: )
- Read Boards (I pick the bits that I need to read and some bits that I need to keep up with)
- Read Team Boards
- Answer PM's
- Answer Board Posts
- Do my DM reports

- Then I got to plan out/work out/create/write/add/research/story/systems into current plots
- Then I need to do DM client NPC's/Items/Setting up Areas (I don't know how to use the toolset and will not as I really don't have the time or brain power)
- Then I got to work on one shot events - Trying to be accessible to all types of PC's. Thinking 5 moves ahead...
- Then I've got to actually find the time to DM, where there will be no interruptions from the 'Mini DM' (she's now moving and developing independent will!) or the 'Boss' (family life)... By the time that is, I am already half asleep and have a couple of hours left of the evening. So I tend to log on with a PC and "mong" out.

- On top of that, being me. My mind has about a billion and one ideas and there are things I like to create for my own entertainment and fun (Ony).

A lot of people already know this and knows what is involved being on the team and you are probably thinking "WHERE THE HELL IS HE GOING WITH THIS?!" I will tell you...

Forum *The Avlis Project: Story Lines*

There is a forum on the team boards where all our plots go for the record and are managed. I have a thread in this forum for one of my plots, it's HUGE! I have all IC stuff logged, letters, IC posts and lore written by players and by myself. Also I log DM items that I drop during events and they are recorded, so when I look it up or another DM do... They will know what that item IG is and what it does.

So me reading a post on an event I've done, gives me three things off the top of my head.

1 - I'm honoured that a player has taken their time out to write about my event/plot. :D
2 - I love to see the PC interpretations and other PC's interactions with the story. }8)
3 - Now this is the IMPORTANT ONE = It saves me the time writing up the DM event myself. What I do is, I take that post and I proof read it. I don't change the text or tamper with it... I post it up in my plot thread and add a DM note for the record like... DM NOTE: "It was 4 inchs and not 8 inchs".

I am serious here, when I read a report or IC post on my event/plots. I think "YES!!! GET IN THERE!" I add it to my Plot Thread and in theory that plot thread should be a GAINT STORY. Which starts and finishes and makes sense...

So your IC posts are extremely important for me as a DM because it helps the plot, helps me out with time to which I can do other things and most importantly it helps your own character development. :D

I know this thread wanted to discuss ideas but I thought bringing an insight from my prospective might help some people in the community have a better idea and why I believe it is important to have a healthy active IC Boards. :cooler:
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:19 pm

Sunscream wrote:I don't know if over the years people got lazy, grew afraid of having a plot stolen, just started to rely on a few key event writer-uppers (because we do have some), or what. If someone started here within the last few years then they probably haven't seen how active the tavern boards used to be. Speaking of that here's an assignment for people: Go to the Mikona Tavern board and jump to the oldest pages. Start reading random threads.


Hahahaha I remember those days very clearly. }8)
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:30 pm

I used to do a lot of IC write-ups on behalf of the various toons I've played through the years. They were my way of thanking DMs for their hard work, acknowledging brilliant moments other characters had, and expressing the worldviews of the various PCs I've played.

But I'll be honest with you - it seems the plots and events these days cater toward a handful (at most) of characters. My main character, Angus Blacksail, happens to be in one of the groups, so I'm lucky in that regard. But other than that select few, it seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that if you're not the groups that have ins in all the stuff going on in and around Zvidureth (formerly including the entire Hel'byssia thing or currently the Avariel business) or in a mage order, the pickings are mostly Pub Crawls, one-offs, or plots that focus specifically on one or two characters. And don't be fooled - writing a public post about a plot you're in is decidedly not the same thing as inviting others to participate, no matter how stridently people say otherwise.

Character-driven plots used to be a lot more common than they are today, but I think that's understandable given the smaller playerbase. Few guilds are populated enough to kickstart a collective activity, and it seems that fewer things actually happen other than a crumpfest here or a craftfest there.

That said, I love the posts I see, whether from a kenku, Thienna, or the many character journals that continue to thrive. But a character journal, as wonderful as it is, is exactly what Ninjar said - a thing of limited scope.

What's the solution? If you want to talk brass tacks, solidly reward people who write quality IC posts, or any post at all that reflects something that's worth noting. I wish everyone wrote just for the sake of contributing to the world, and maybe once the flow gets going they will, but I mean a tangible reward - XP, a short DM post in recognition saying that some member of the general public acknowledges the information, etc. Economists have proven that incentives are what drive our social behavior, so why not apply that solution here, at least until the mostly-forgotten, once-widespread interest in writing IC posts returns? They're often inspiring enough to read that the optimist in me says people will begin doing them for the same reason they used to - because they are the shit.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Sarmanos » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:56 pm

Here is the honest assessment. The actual conclusion I think this talk will result in.

Nothing will change as a result of this. We'll all talk about this stuff, say what great ideas some of these things are, and then nothing will result of it or change and we'll be right back to have the same talk again on the boards, IRC, or wherever in a year or so. It will be the same people wondering why no one posts, the same regular posters frustrated and on the edge of burnout because no one posts so that they can occasionally get a break, and everyone in between. Someone will then speak up about it, and the cycle begins anew.

It isn't what anyone would like to hear or admit to I'm sure, but I have seen this topic come up several times over the last several years and this is usually how the talk goes and what I said above is how it always ends. If you want more posts you have to do it yourself and expect nothing in return. You won't get anywhere asking other people to do it or asking the team to incentivize it. That's just how it is.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Ronan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:07 am

Nah, I have faith in our playerbase. I feel if I ask players to write up events for anything I run, they will :)
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:18 am

Sarm is probably right, but a reminder/guilt trip can't hurt now and then. If it gets a few more IC posts or new posters, I'd be happy. :lol:

My write-ups are few and far between, but that is because I don't get IG enough. When I'm involved in a DM event, you bet I'll do my best to not only toss something on the IC boards, but usually I'll also add a bunch of screenshots to go with it. It may take me a while to get it posted, or I put it off too long and forget (bad, I know), but sometimes I'll toss up a quick blurb as a starter, and see if I can convince other's from the event to add their take on things too. Trade fairs are always good for a few hundred more screenshots, and any good PC party romps to interesting places too.

I'll admit not being good about write-ups for Pleth's pub crawls and horse races. They usually get a new album of screenshots each time, but there isn't much I'd write about IC for the horse races. Maybe a bard could play sports writer or something there. I think I did a pub crawl write-up or two, but I'm usually late, or the crawl is related to some plot that I can't understand (if I went to more, it might be different). Not a good excuse, I know, and in fact a good reason to do a write-up, and see if others can fill in some blanks with it. I'll do better. :mrgreen:

I'm not involved in anything important IC these days, so I don't have much to write about when a random romp happens without a DM, but if anything interesting or funny happens on one... why not tell everyone? Go ahead and brag or whine about getting killed all the time, if it is something your PC would do. Lie and say you saved everyone, or make up your version of events. I always get a laugh from those.

Ninjar said everything I feel, and I'm sure many of us would like to see more IC posts about things on the boards. Guess what? That means you have to do them too! :P

Journals are great, but many of you know I'm a fan of actual IC posts, where we can ask questions about what happened, or reply to what is written, especially when it is a controversial topic (not going near *emote* posts, nope...). Like Ninjar said, if you go back and read a bunch of the older posts, you'll see how much fun they were ("fun" being a relative term). Sure, some degraded into ugly, name calling messes, but unlike RL internet flame wars, you can go hunt them down and deal with it IG. :twisted: Just remember to keep it IC, and never let things cross over that line, or ever take it personally. :prost:
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Xaila » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:29 am

Sarmanos wrote:Here is the honest assessment. The actual conclusion I think this talk will result in.

Nothing will change as a result of this. We'll all talk about this stuff, say what great ideas some of these things are, and then nothing will result of it or change and we'll be right back to have the same talk again on the boards, IRC, or wherever in a year or so. It will be the same people wondering why no one posts, the same regular posters frustrated and on the edge of burnout because no one posts so that they can occasionally get a break, and everyone in between. Someone will then speak up about it, and the cycle begins anew.

It isn't what anyone would like to hear or admit to I'm sure, but I have seen this topic come up several times over the last several years and this is usually how the talk goes and what I said above is how it always ends. If you want more posts you have to do it yourself and expect nothing in return. You won't get anywhere asking other people to do it or asking the team to incentivize it. That's just how it is.


All of this is probably true on some level. But dang, there goes there that tiny bit of inspiration/enthusiasm I had for a minute there...
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:53 am

If you want more posts you have to do it yourself and expect nothing in return.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: SaraEF » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:17 am

you've achieved something, this thread is the most fun I've had reading the forums in months
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:31 am

I haven't had anything IC to write about for a long time except recording FEATings and Shem meetings in the appropriate guild threads. I just seem to be missing all the action lately. *shrugs*
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Elradra » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:43 am

My two most active characters usually post things they feel worth writing about in their respective guild boards. Rade is by far more active since she's something of a scout and thus has more responsibility to keep the "main force" informed while spreading misinformation among potential competition. Elra has started to be more active on the forums since I realized this is where all the real action happens, but her write-ups and reports are usually to DMs as she tries to advance her own personal evil agenda that she obviously doesn't want the public to know about. At least when I remember to write stuff anyway. Both of them spend most of their time either alone or in very small groups doing fairly routine dungeon crawls for profit.

Usually, yeah, I'm in the IG gossip circle method of spreading information. It's kind of how I got my information about events when I started playing in 2012 and I've never really grown away from it. Most events I attend and feel worth writing about are usually attended by most of the playerbase anyway. It doesn't help that by the time I log off I've usually sleep griefed myself, and when I have free time I pretty much jump right IG.

As with everything I can say I can try to chip in more. Hopefully drumming up the public forum activity will show old players how active we still are too.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: l1t3r » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:44 am

SaraEF wrote:you've achieved something, this thread is the most fun I've had reading the forums in months

+1
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Xeo » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:47 am

Alright I will throw this into the mix...

It takes 'teamwork' from everyone to run a event/plot. That's everyone.

If I am spending my time and effort to bring Avlis entertainment and help make the world come alive, a little post or write up here and there is not really alot to expect or ask for. Not war and peace but something.. It really helps the DM's behind the scenes.

If not, I have other things that I could be doing. 8-)

Again it's teamwork from everyone to make this great community stay alive and be celebrating 15 years of Avlis.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: gutemensch » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:03 am

Xeo couldn't be more honest and truthful about that than he is.

Only takes a few moments to write what happens and no one looking for book of the month stuff. Add a few details, little color from your character and presto IG post. Share it with your guild, post it in public, or even put it in your journal if you want. As one DM once told, IG write ups are what DMs run on. Tells your DM they created something that you enjoyed and by writing it you bringing it life for them. Its their rave and encouragement to do more. So if you enjoyed an event. Take a moment and write something as your character. It feeds the DMs and a well fed DM is a happy DM.


Doesn't even have be DMed events. Most of my character's writings are from non DMed moments posted in her character journal or as Micah calls it "Nawen's Erotic Fan Fiction". One of the first things as DM I was encouraged to read all active characters if I wasn't reading other's journals. Cause it reveals that character, their interactions and the world as they see it.
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Katroine » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:42 pm

I have not had a whole lot to write up these days or I would do so. I love write ups.
I promise, if I am involved in something (and I know what is happening) you will get some sort of write up.

It may seem a daunting task but really it shouldn't feel like that. Not everyone is going to cover an event with as much detail as GunnJ and not everyone is going to make it an enthralling storytelling post either. Just the facts, ma'am. And also, the facts as your character sees them. If I ask about an event in game that has been posted about, it is usually when there is a group of people so others can chime in with their interpretation of events.

Private (guild/mage order/academy) posts are fine too. They will always happen. I would literally be lost without some of the posts from Thienna/Sapphire. So if you've not been thanked for them, thank you.
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Katroine
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Re: Where is the Hot Avlis Action?

PostAuthor: Kinjara » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:43 pm

This thread has been a real eye-opener for me. I come from an MMORPG background (longtime Shadowclan member if you have heard of them) where DM-interaction is nearly non-existent. I can think of only two instances where developers/GMs actively participated/ran an event and instead it is the players who generate in-game actions/events. In those worlds the write-ups were always on guild forums and practically all of the IC stuff happened IG, not on forums. I do enjoy writing so will look to do more here. As a player new to Avlis most of my time has just been getting my feet wet in the world and learning this new PnP-like style (which I am loving btw).

Note: My start date says 2010, but I really started playing "for real" a few months ago.

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