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Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

General discussion about Avlis

Moderators: Nighthawk4, Dungeon Masters

Which 3 or 4 months a year should the Ferrell Trade Fair be held?

January
4
4%
February
6
7%
March
6
7%
April
15
16%
May
6
7%
June
5
5%
July
3
3%
August
14
15%
September
3
3%
October
8
9%
November
16
17%
December
6
7%
 
Total votes : 92

Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:09 pm

TL;DR: The short version (if you don't want to read the rest) is you can choose up to 4 months each year that the SATF will host Trade Fairs in the poll. Too much of a good thing may be... too much, so don't feel you must choose 4 months a year if you think 3 is enough, and you can change your votes at any time.

This is an OOC topic to get opinions and feedback from everyone on a new idea we've been discussing in the South Avlis Trade Federation. The plan is to set regular dates throughout the year for when we will hold each Trade Fair*, so everyone will know exactly when to expect the next one.

* If you are new to Avlis, and don't know what the Ferrell Trade Fairs are, here are a few of the previous topics about them:
Trade Fair Annoucement with a twist! (28th/27th Aug)
The Fabulous Ferrell Trade Fair! (Oct 3rd-4th, 2015)
The Port Eridanus Marketplace forum is full of other topics about previous Fairs as well.

The announcements for each Fair will still be done IC before the dates. This OOC poll and discussion is separate from those, so try not to get too confoozed.

:mrgreen:

One of the major concerns we have when advertising a new Trade Fair is giving enough advance notice for traders to prepare for it. Not only for saving up gold to buy things, but gathering materials or items, and the time it takes to make things in various worlds' crafting systems. There have been special events at many Fairs as well, that often take quite a bit of planning and preparation. The wonderful staff here in Avlis also put in a lot of time and effort decorating the Bazaar (many thanks to Pleth for that), and setting up their own special DM events and other things. Planning and QA testing for changes to the Fairs takes a long time too, and I can say from past experiences that many ideas for upcoming ones get left behind after the date passes because there wasn't enough time to do them properly.

Setting up the Trade Fair dates on an advanced schedule would be a benefit to many, for all sorts of reasons, so we are looking at what schedule to set for them. That is where you come in. So far the proposed dates would be either 3 or 4 times each year at regular intervals. We don't have to be too strict about the exact timing each month, since holidays and other things tend to mess up that kind of plan, so we only need to figure out which months to run them. We can adjust the date to avoid any bad weekends in that month as they are added to the calendar. I initially proposed the months of April, August and the end of November/beginning of December as a 3 per year schedule, but that is just my vote to get things started. There are 12 months in the year, so whatever works!

Everyone loves to click choices in a poll here, so pick 3 or 4 months in the year that you think would be best. They will need to be spaced at least 3 months apart for recovery time, so please keep that in mind when picking them. If you see the poll trending a different way than you initially voted, you are welcome to change your vote again, so it can help fine tune the results. There won't be an end date to the poll, since things may change over the next year, but we are looking at holding the next Fair possibly as early as next month, and then setting the dates for the next few as well.

Your feedback here will help shape the future of the Ferrell Trade Fair, so any input is welcome. This may take a bit of fine tuning to get right, but I look forward to seeing the Fairs as a regular event on the calendar from now on, and hope I''m not the only one. Any other ideas or comments for how we should do things at the Fair are also encouraged here, and if you think this is the wrong way to do things, you can say that too. Keep in mind that any major planning takes people to do the work, but they also won't ever happen if no one suggests doing them.

See you at the Fair!
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:21 am

Time for a quick bump, and to mention again that you can change your votes in the poll. There is no end date to it, so things can change in the future, if needed.

Now that we are getting an idea of which months are more popular, you can help fine tune it, by changing any votes of yours that don't look like they will make much of a difference into ones that will. As I mentioned, the weekends of the months chosen will still be flexible, so we can avoid any holiday conflicts, and even out the short/long gaps a bit. So something like that 5 month gap between the March and August picks can be closer to 4 (if needed), and add a bit more space before the next November pick after it. If everyone says they don't like summer fairs, we can just go with a long break then too.

For now, it looks like we can try for the November date, and go from there, so you'll hear more about that once the SATF has a bit of time to confirm things. We'll keep bumping this for a while, to catch anyone who missed the first few times, since it matters to everyone here. Thanks for the help, and if you have some ideas or feedback of your own, do add it below.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:49 pm

One last bump for anyone who hasn't seen this, and for those who want to change their votes.

Unless the poll changes, I'll be recommending to the SATF that the next 3 fairs (for 2017) will be posted on the calendar as follows:
* Below each are holidays (and other things) we might want to avoid, though some probably aren't much more than dates on a calendar.

  • April 8th-9th.
    • Easter weekend, April 14th-17th.
    • UK: St. George's Day, April 23rd.
    • AU: ANZAC Day, April 25th.
  • August 12th-13th or 19th-20th (I'm leaning towards the 19th-20th for this, as a "last fling before the new school year" kinda thing, but either works.).
    • CA: Provincial holiday (various), August 7th.
    • UK: Bank holiday, August 28th.
    • School begins for many after September 4th (NA: Labor Day holiday).
  • November 18th-19th or December 2nd-3rd.
    • NA (and others): Veteran's/Remembrance Day, November 11th.
    • US: Thanksgiving, November 23rd.

We should get this sorted in the SATF within the next week or two, and update the calendar with them. After that, we can add the next one after each Fair happens, so everyone should have a year of advanced warning/planning time.

If you have any better ideas, speak up. :wink:

*edits to add* Like most things "Avlis", if something else is going to interfere with the Fair date as it approaches, we may "tweak it" a bit. If a major plot event is happening at the same time, or any RL stuff gets in the way... or if another date would work better for the team in some way, then we may change the weekend for that Fair. We will be planning for what is posted on the calendar, but if the Fair will be better on another weekend, then it may be changed. You'll get as much advanced warning as possible if something like that happens.

*edit 2* Added November 18th-19th as a free weekend, since it has nothing happening around it.
Last edited by Gorgon on Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:09 pm

I like this.
Just hear those sleigh bells jingle-ing, ring-ting tingle-ing, too
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you
Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling "yoo hoo"
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Plethora » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:57 am

Looks good to me, although i would not worry to much abut AU: ANZAC Day, April 25th.
This year it falls on a tuesday, and i will be taken off the 24th anyways, so its an extra long weekend for me !
Not that i dont just take off trade faires anyways :)

I would agree with you, but then, we would both be wrong..
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Coco » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:55 pm

I think December is in general a bad month for me.
I am so busy in December because of preparing for our sons birthday (4th December), Christmas and New Year - which all include parties/guests attached to the events.

I would prefer November :D.

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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:12 pm

Good point about December. Veterans Day in November may be a postal holiday in the US but it's not a big family time. People may actually have time to play because of a 3 day weekend if they even get off.
Just hear those sleigh bells jingle-ing, ring-ting tingle-ing, too
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you
Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling "yoo hoo"
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:46 pm

Even if we move the August date back as well, you have less than 3 months between Fairs there, and a very long 5 month gap until the next one in April. Go back further into July, and you are also looking at the deadest times on Avlis. More play over Christmas than the nice summer months.

Also, I may agree with holidays being Avlis days, but others don't. If not for the reason behind the holiday, then because they plan vacations around the statutory holiday time off with friends/family (vacations are supposed to be for Avlis :irre: ). As Pleth (and I) mentioned, some holidays are just dates on a calendar, but the ones with work/school time off are different. I'd pick stat holiday weekends for every Fair, but that's just me.

The last fair was at the same time in December, and worked well, but if everyone wants to completely change their votes for all months, we'll go with that too. The April month is probably the easiest to change, but as I said, moving the August one to an earlier time might be a bad idea. You can also vote for 4 of them a year, but the turnaround time will be quite fast, with them less than 3 months apart in many cases. I also think many people would suffer some burnout from the pressure to set up something special, and repetitiveness, but if you all want 4, we'll do it.

We've gone through at least 36 Trade Fairs since 2003, and the one thing in common for all of them is that you can't make everyone happy, no matter how hard you try. Nothing is set in stone yet though, and it never will be, so all of your suggestions are useful. This topic has been going since October, with only 1 reply about a change, so do say something if you want to do things differently. :wink:
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: galen_macbyrne » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:21 pm

I picked 4 months, but that doesn't mean I want 4 Fairs a year. Heck, the average is between 2 and 3, I'd be fine with two a year even. August is bad for me, though end of the month is much better than beginning.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:36 pm

I added November 18th-19th as a free weekend, since it has nothing happening around it (kinda missed it in the list). If we go with that one, then I'd push for the earlier August date as well, or we are looking at less than 3 months of recovery time. Remember that the earlier November time means a longer 5 month wait for April too (or the same until August, if we move April back).

The easiest solution (on paper) is March/July/November, but I really think summer is a bad idea here. Even early August is dead.

You guys are the ones voting, so change 'em if you want to! :mrgreen:

*edits* And a reminder that the poll isn't about picking all the months you could attend. It is about picking the best months to hold the Fairs next year, and for future ones. If every month gets about the same votes, the poll ends up being useless. Do change your votes to make a difference, if needed. :wink:
Last edited by Gorgon on Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: SaraEF » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:38 pm

April/October has always done well, right?
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:58 pm

For twice a year, during the later ones, yes. The spring one varied a bit, but October was popular for the previous 3 years (4, including the non-fair fair this year by DMs).

Trying to use October in a 3/year plan would mean something like Feb/June/Oct. Might work, but I'm uncertain about June being any good for a crowd. We had one in 2012, and a July one back in 2009, but we had more people then too (way more back in the earlier years). People love to get out in the summer sun, or whatever they do around then, but it could work.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:29 am

To show another option, here is what we could do with Feb/June/Oct as the preset months. I'd suggest delaying the first one until the end of February, or early March, since it is so soon after our last one, but there are plenty of options available for all of the months listed.

  • February 4th-5th or 11th-12th or 25th-26th (possibly March 4th-5th or 11th-12th if our down under players/DMs are fine with it).
    • AU: Australia Day, January 26th.
    • CA: Family Day (only British Columbia), February 13th (If any others live here with me in BC, say something, but I'm fine with playing on the holiday weekend).
    • Valentine's Day, February 14th (Not a holiday, but might be an issue for some, though it is after the weekend anyway).
    • US/CA: Presidents' Day/Provincial holiday (various), February 20th (No, we can't decide which day of the month to set holidays between provinces in Canaduh :roll: ).
    • AU: Labor Day (Western Australia), March 6th
    • AU: Labor Day/May Day (Victoria), March 13th (I guess Canaduh isn't the only one :P ).
    • St. Patrick's Day, March 17th (Only an actual holiday in Ireland, the east coast of Canada, and maybe a few other places, but probably a good excuse to play+drink anyway. :prost: )
  • June 17th-18th or 24th-25th (possibly June 3rd-4th or 10th-11th, depending on how it affects our down under players/DMs).
    • CA: Victoria Day, May 22nd.
    • US/UK: Memorial Day/Spring Bank Holiday, May 29th.
    • AU: Western Australia Day, June 5th.
    • AU: Queen's Birthday (Most regions), June 12th.
    • CA: Canada Day, July 1st (Holiday on the 3rd).
    • US: Independence Day, July 4th.
  • October 14th-15th or 21st-22nd or 28th-29th or November 4th-5th (possibly September 23rd-24th or September 30th-October 1st, depending on how it affects our down under players/DMs).
    • AU: Queen's Birthday (Western Australia), September 25th.
    • AU: Queen's Birthday (Queensland)/Labour Day (ACT, NSW, SA), October 2nd.
    • US/CA: Columbus Day (Most regions)/Thanksgiving Day, October 9th.
    • Halloween, October 31st (Not a holiday, and probably a good excuse to play for many, with the theme).
    • NA (and others): Veteran's/Remembrance Day, November 11th.

* All of those have some "possible" alternate weekends, since I have no idea how the various Australian holidays affect people down there. They are different for so many areas, so I'll let them decide what is what there, if we start considering those dates. I don't think we need to worry about them, with so many other choices.

I'm not saying we should change it to this, but it may help to see how things would work if we did. Toss in any thoughts on this you have as well, and/or change your votes.
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:20 am

OK, based on your collective remarks, I'm changing my vote to a Spring and Fall trade faire.
Just hear those sleigh bells jingle-ing, ring-ting tingle-ing, too
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you
Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling "yoo hoo"
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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: Coco » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:06 am

Gorgon wrote: You can also vote for 4 of them a year, but the turnaround time will be quite fast, with them less than 3 months apart in many cases. I also think many people would suffer some burnout from the pressure to set up something special, and repetitiveness, but if you all want 4, we'll do it.


With the amount of time and effort being put in the Fairs, I also fear someone will burnout in time from the pressure.

I always considered the Fair to be something very speciel - almost giving me the feeling like when it's Christmas again. In my viewpoint, it's not if they appear to often, so I could even go with two Fairs a year <[8) .

However, if we are to have more than two Fairs, then December is the only bad month for me.

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Re: Regular Trade Fair Dates Poll And Other Feedback

PostAuthor: tizmo » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:33 pm

Updated my vote. I like the 2x per year option with April and Oct/Nov.

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