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New Wilderness Hak

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 pm

It makes it more like a real forest. Visibility is an issue for a thick forest, now it's like that for T'Nanshi. :P
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Daecon » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:52 pm

I'm one of those folks who don't really like having the view obscured, even if it adds a sense of realism. So I edited the hak to use Bioware's default forest tileset again. I'm not particularly savvy with NWN, so use at your own risk - i've been using this edited version of the hak a few weeks though and didn't have a problem. Rename your current JXP_Forest.hak so you can easily switch back if you do have problems

Edited JXP_Forest.hak
- http://www.mediafire.com/?9nd1ynchhn7

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Sephira » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:44 pm

loki70 wrote:Yeah, POV for someone with motion sickness (like myself) who plays a monk (like myself) and has either a choice of throwing up on their computer or not seeing anything (like myself) really takes something away from the game. I run around with my finger on the tab key as it is. That and my character's fascination with boobs might give my wife the wrong idea if she walks in while my perv of a monk is looking down Sarrena's cleavage...


ROFL I've never noticed that, or does he keep away from Sephira because she's a Mrs.?
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: loki70 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Sephira wrote:
loki70 wrote:Yeah, POV for someone with motion sickness (like myself) who plays a monk (like myself) and has either a choice of throwing up on their computer or not seeing anything (like myself) really takes something away from the game. I run around with my finger on the tab key as it is. That and my character's fascination with boobs might give my wife the wrong idea if she walks in while my perv of a monk is looking down Sarrena's cleavage...


ROFL I've never noticed that, or does he keep away from Sephira because she's a Mrs.?

apparently it's only halflings. He's a bit of an odd fish. I'll have to check with other races.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Sephira » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:29 pm

Easier to see down their shirts at least :D
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: spool32 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:38 pm

Daecon wrote:I'm one of those folks who don't really like having the view obscured, even if it adds a sense of realism. So I edited the hak to use Bioware's default forest tileset again. I'm not particularly savvy with NWN, so use at your own risk - i've been using this edited version of the hak a few weeks though and didn't have a problem. Rename your current JXP_Forest.hak so you can easily switch back if you do have problems

Edited JXP_Forest.hak
- http://www.mediafire.com/?9nd1ynchhn7


JXP_Forest content hasn't been added to the live server yet... the hak went in early so that no one woudl be screwed when the content started showing up. Once people start adding areas using the actual tileset, this solution will cause areas of wilderness to be dramatically broken.

Wilderness is in active dev right now, so yes, use this clientside kludge at your own risk.

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Brayon » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:21 pm

I hate to disagree with you spool32, but the JPX hak overides the existing forest tileset. There are already changes in the layout of several T'Nanshi wilderness areas, but most of it is cosmetic. Example: The area directly south of Central Le'Or lifts, has a new JPX tree in the middle of the road, and the road has been ascued from the rest of the road.

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Belasco » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:35 pm

I think he's refering to the fact that we haven't gone in and made any major changes yet. They are coming, though.

As for being unhappy with the hak, I have one thing to say:

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTT!!! *wipes spittle off of her monitor*


Now then, this hak has been in place in Le'Or and Visi for a long while. I'm fairly certain most of you will be happy with the changes that are coming but I'm also completely positive some of you won't like them one bit. It's the nature of any project that involves change and this many opinions. With that in mind please also remember that those of us who are working behind the scenes are genuinely trying to make Avlis an even better place, but we are doing it with our own time and with the hope that what efforts we put in will be at least met with appreciation for the effort that brought it about.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:56 pm

Yet Visimontium and Le'Or were built with the hak in place, and that does make a difference.

Since the hak has gone in my character often walks through trees and rocks, right through several stone walls, yet strangely walks around what looks like open space, and in a fight that is a big problem.

In the announcement and in the comments afterward there was no mention of new or replaced content on the way. Now that I have learned redesigned areas are in the works I am excited to see them, and am more than happy to wait in anticipation. But please don't belittle the real frustration of players who had no idea of the upcoming changes.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: spool32 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:05 am

GunnJ wrote:Yet Visimontium and Le'Or were built with the hak in place, and that does make a difference.

Since the hak has gone in my character often walks through trees and rocks, right through several stone walls, yet strangely walks around what looks like open space, and in a fight that is a big problem.

In the announcement and in the comments afterward there was no mention of new or replaced content on the way. Now that I have learned redesigned areas are in the works I am excited to see them, and am more than happy to wait in anticipation. But please don't belittle the real frustration of players who had no idea of the upcoming changes.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we didn't know it'd affect existing content! If you can let us know where these areas are, we can try to fix them along with the new additions. What we need is the row and column, or at least the exact location of the area relative to some landmark area.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:22 am

Can do.

And I do want to stress that I am absolutely thrilled to hear about reworked areas. If they look anything like the areas of the Geritri it certainly is well worth a few seasick patches.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Belasco » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:47 am

spool32 wrote:
GunnJ wrote:Yet Visimontium and Le'Or were built with the hak in place, and that does make a difference.

Since the hak has gone in my character often walks through trees and rocks, right through several stone walls, yet strangely walks around what looks like open space, and in a fight that is a big problem.

In the announcement and in the comments afterward there was no mention of new or replaced content on the way. Now that I have learned redesigned areas are in the works I am excited to see them, and am more than happy to wait in anticipation. But please don't belittle the real frustration of players who had no idea of the upcoming changes.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we didn't know it'd affect existing content! If you can let us know where these areas are, we can try to fix them along with the new additions. What we need is the row and column, or at least the exact location of the area relative to some landmark area.


To the best of my knowledge there has not been a report of the above mentioned issues.

Also, please keep in mind that for many of us on the Team are still active players. For instance, my main PC spends 90% of her time on the Wilderness server and an easy 95% of that time within T'Nanshi. I'll look forward to the bug report, I wonder if there's a difference between races or if there is some other issue at work (regardless, I won't be the one to fix it...I'm not cool enough).
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: korak » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:17 am

One reason that the hak probably does not affect me much as far as 'eye appeasement' is because I am pretty unobservant. I don't pay attention to much of anything and there are quite a few that could probably vouch for that (including my wife). I would be totally satisifed with the game if it was black and white and all the people were stick people as long as the game play was fun. I really couldn't care less if things looked nice or not, but I am probably in the low percentage of people there. ;)

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: aldo ixnay » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:10 am

Well I can explain my situation:

Pre-hak: any time I went over a transition I could clearly see my character, could easily click around, and could plainly see my surroundings. All the while I obviously knew I was in the forest and could navigate the game without issue.

Post-hak: many times when I go over a transition, my character is partially or completly obscured, I can't see my surroundings and it's very difficult to navigate. I have to zoom in and navigate which I find cumbersome and counter intuitive. Once my character gets near the center of the area this subsides a bit and I can zoom back out for the most part but I just can't see how this adds anything for me other than frustration. I mean I actually find playing on the Wilderness pretty annoying now.

Do I understand someone worked long and hard to make these changes with nothing but good intentions in their hearts? Sure. Am I concerned that this criticism may be taken personally and hurt the creator's feelings? Certainly, and for that I am sorry, it is not my intention. But if a few people (ol' timer Tharliss, even!) are complaining about a fundamental change to an important area of the game, I would hope the criticism would be given some consideration. This is my last post on the subject, and I'm not trying to start a sh*tstorm or make someone who put a lot of time and effort into this get frustrated and not want to do it anymore but I did want to get my opinion across and have it discussed.

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Brayon » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:02 am

Belasco wrote:I think he's refering to the fact that we haven't gone in and made any major changes yet. They are coming, though.

As for being unhappy with the hak, I have one thing to say:

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTT!!! *wipes spittle off of her monitor*


Now then, this hak has been in place in Le'Or and Visi for a long while. I'm fairly certain most of you will be happy with the changes that are coming but I'm also completely positive some of you won't like them one bit. It's the nature of any project that involves change and this many opinions. With that in mind please also remember that those of us who are working behind the scenes are genuinely trying to make Avlis an even better place, but we are doing it with our own time and with the hope that what efforts we put in will be at least met with appreciation for the effort that brought it about.


Oh, I am not "unhappy" about the new hak, and reworked areas, on the contrary. I've used the JPX haks, and skyboxes in the past, and think they are a welcome addtion to any mod. I was just pointing out that some changes have taken place since the hak went in, and that most of it is of a cosmetic sort. I just felt that it really didn't warrent a bug report, because of face-lift that's inprogess. :D :prost:

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Belasco » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:42 am

Fist off, no worries about hurting anyone's feelings over here...that I know of. I mean, we didn't write the hak, after all ;)

There seem to be some pretty buggy things from what you lot have said...which might mean removing the hak until it's fixed or getting the fixes in or any number of other things (not my department).

I've always played with the 2nd story visible and so far I haven't had any problems, and that's far from saying that there aren't issues, I just haven't run into them yet.

Please please please, if you haven't already done so, file a bug report or at least shoot the Team an email if you're having buggy problems with the hak. I'd also be very interested to know if you guys have these same issues on other mods that have the same hak or is it just wilds?

Some of it, like the trees appearing in the middle of roads, disappearing walls, and that sorta thing, are pretty cosmetic (I hope).

Nobody wants to make playing frustrating...because, well, that sucks. None of us log into Avlis thinking "hmm, I haven't been pissed off enough today, I think I'll log in..."

So, in the interest of everyone's gaming experience and sanity please send on those bug reports and I'll hold off on any changes that are dependent on the jpx_forest hak until we've got things as sorted as we can.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: GunnJ » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:51 am

Here is a pic of the area I had all my troubles in. It is one area west of Thayt'Trethlawn, if that helps.

Image

I was in the middle of a fight at the time it happened, and my character was able to run up on top of the corner stone and also run through that tree. As you can see, the visual of the fence is not just turned round, but I can walk through where the fence is supposed to be.


I tried to recreate walking through the tree and standing on the fence again this evening to no avail. At the time I blamed the hak completely, but since everything was fine this evening I'm now wondering if during the fighting the hak + lag + massive spell fx led to all the problems I had that evening.

If anyone happened to see my PC running straight on into various walls, rocks and trees while I was testing this, I promise you she has not been driven mad by listening to Dender's blather, I mean, unique conversations.

And if you did see it, I hope it gave you a good laugh. ;)
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Talwin Hawkins » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:00 am

While i think of it. One of the worst areas for walkmesh problems i can think of (and probably not related to this hak) is the area in ferrel where the port hole is. Behind the AKN(?) there are some fields, that you just CANNOT walk through. You have to walk around them. Now i understand theyre pretty big on farming in ferrell but damn! If noone knows what area im talking about i will get a screeny later.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Chemical-Burn » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:37 am

Talwin Hawkins wrote:While i think of it. One of the worst areas for walkmesh problems i can think of (and probably not related to this hak) is the area in ferrel where the port hole is. Behind the AKN(?) there are some fields, that you just CANNOT walk through. You have to walk around them. Now i understand theyre pretty big on farming in ferrell but damn! If noone knows what area im talking about i will get a screeny later.


Amen to that *from someone that has dped by a demon racoon stuck in one of those spots*

As far as this wildernes hak i have not seen 'bugs' i just find it very bothersome to spawn into an area and have my entire screen black because some set of leaves up on one of the new trees not effected by second story tiles is blocking my entire view. The same trees have also blocked my ability to see and click on a trans on more then one time. People say to bring the camera down so i did but then your pc takes up a good 30% or more of your walk area in front if not more so most times your mouse highlights your pc and not the ground in front or any objects there.

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: korak » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:54 pm

Thanks for the hak. That makes things much better. Guess I will use it as long as it does not cause the game to crash when things get updated. :)

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: spool32 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:54 pm

Chemical-Burn wrote:
Talwin Hawkins wrote:While i think of it. One of the worst areas for walkmesh problems i can think of (and probably not related to this hak) is the area in ferrel where the port hole is. Behind the AKN(?) there are some fields, that you just CANNOT walk through. You have to walk around them. Now i understand theyre pretty big on farming in ferrell but damn! If noone knows what area im talking about i will get a screeny later.


Amen to that *from someone that has dped by a demon racoon stuck in one of those spots*

As far as this wildernes hak i have not seen 'bugs' i just find it very bothersome to spawn into an area and have my entire screen black because some set of leaves up on one of the new trees not effected by second story tiles is blocking my entire view. The same trees have also blocked my ability to see and click on a trans on more then one time. People say to bring the camera down so i did but then your pc takes up a good 30% or more of your walk area in front if not more so most times your mouse highlights your pc and not the ground in front or any objects there.


Your mousewheel should give you a lot more gradation between "all the way out" and "stuck to the back of your head". I think I have about 10-12 degrees of zoom between near and far...
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: krackq » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:30 pm

Usually if I wander into a foresty area and am zoomed all the way out, depending on the angle, the tree canopies pop in here or there. I usually roll in my mousewheel one click and its fine as spool32 mentioned. That said, I spend half the time changing my views anyway, zooming in our out and rotating the camera.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Brayon » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:14 pm

krackq wrote:Usually if I wander into a foresty area and am zoomed all the way out, depending on the angle, the tree canopies pop in here or there. I usually roll in my mousewheel one click and its fine as spool32 mentioned. That said, I spend half the time changing my views anyway, zooming in our out and rotating the camera.


Same here, just to make sure that nothing is on me. I'm always moving the camera around and zooming in and out. Even at Elf Gate when talking.

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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: llhht » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:20 pm

I think the big (and only) complaint is the trees blocking everyone's view.

I didn't like it in Le'Or as well, but you could (and I did) avoid those areas if you chose. Kindof hard to avoid trees in the wilds :P

New content is grand, and I like seeing new things myself, but not at the expense of playtime enjoyment.

And sure, we can all be zoom happy with the mouse wheel, but that's something we'll have to keep up with during our playing. Along with RPing, thinking, using items, clicking, keeling, and the bajillion other things this game requires. The view distance MUST be correct in those areas as well, too far and you can't see shit, too close and more leaves block your view, so you can't see shit.

I don't think anyone will get mad and quit over some trees blocking the view, it's just a pain in the ass.
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Re: New Wilderness Hak

PostAuthor: Eklektikos » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:28 pm

llhht wrote:Kindof hard to avoid trees in the wilds :P

Easy enough as long as you avoid the hippie-infested half of the server. ;)
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