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XP Code Changes III: Chuck Norris Returns!

General discussion about Avlis

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PostAuthor: apandapion » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:49 pm

Is this up on Le'Or now? I'm getting some pretty odd number fluctuations.

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PostAuthor: Darkfire » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:26 am

Merago Jert wrote:
Thanks again to the Mr T. 20/Chuck Norris 19/Shadowdancer 1 build


Deider's a damned cheeser! He only took that SD level for HiPS!



Darkfire wrote:Statstics for Mr.T 20 / chuck norris 19 / SD1


str: 200
con:100
dex:100
wis:50
int:50
cha:300

saves:
fort:105
dex:95
will:95

racial skills:
manishly good looks +50cha
man beard +50 cha
bling +50 cha +50 intimidate

Feats:
roundhouse kick: insta-death DC 200
cross arms and nod: will make everone understand DC 150
prolonged beard rub: fully heals object(s) rubbed
sneak beard fist (+100d10)
Pity: FOIG
HiPs: This feat is actually not needed. Due to game limitations it uses intimidate in place of hide/MS skill, being as he can scare people into not seeing him.
Special intimidate: can stare down books until given required info. ( takes place of Lore )

Skills:
intimidate:200
heal:0+beard modifier=20,000
hide: see skill "intimidate"
ms: see skill "intimidate"
Lore: see skill "intimidate"
UMD: same as Lore
tumble: No need for this skill either, for after the first round house kick and/or pity, you will be unable to attack, therefor he needs not dodge anything.


:twisted: its obvious that the SD level 1 for strictly RP being as he didn't need the HiPs anyways
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PostAuthor: JJJ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:54 am

Yes he does need the HiPs. For when you come home early and you catch him in bed with your woman. He could just kill you of course, but, being the decent sort, he leaves quietly.

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PostAuthor: Darkfire » Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:06 am

JJJ wrote:Yes he does need the HiPs. For when you come home early and you catch him in bed with your woman. He could just kill you of course, but, being the decent sort, he leaves quietly.


HiPs: This feat is actually not needed. Due to game limitations it uses intimidate in place of hide/MS skill, being as he can scare people into not seeing him.


He doesn't actually hide, he just scared you into thinking you can't see him.
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:03 am

Vault wipe!


Fortunately, iirc, Orleron has said a number of times that we will never do a vault wipe.


NH4 you are correct.

Now if anyone wants to start completly over with new characters and doesnt think they can resist the lure of their old characters I will make you a special deal. PM me with your playername and I will whipe YOUR vault file so that you can have a "clean start".

Oh and BTW:
To all of you who ran around posting about how the changes to the XP system were the "Doom of Avlis" or would "Force epic's to craft to level" I just wanted to say:
"I told you so!" (ie I told you we would tweak)
:)
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PostAuthor: Micah » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:34 am

So long as there is a Chuck Norris, there will always be XP.

Long live the Norris!
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PostAuthor: Aeveras » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:44 am

Alexandru Stanicu wrote:To all of you who ran around posting about how the changes to the XP system were the "Doom of Avlis" or would "Force epic's to craft to level" I just wanted to say:
"I told you so!" (ie I told you we would tweak)
:)


What? No way! We were promised demonic rituals and child sacrifices. Yeah, that's it...

*coughs*

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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:13 am

Oh and BTW:
To all of you who ran around posting about how the changes to the XP system were the "Doom of Avlis" or would "Force epic's to craft to level" I just wanted to say:
"I told you so!" (ie I told you we would tweak)


True enough. Time for some feedback now. Last night a party of 7 ( I think ) went to visit the Lord of the Pit. As far as I know this is considered one of the most challenging areas on avlis? Anyhow, there were 3 high epics ( 2 *34, 1 38th I think ), 3 PCs in their twenties, and one PC under 20th ( not sure, but I think a fair way under 20 ). We had a good time and got some DM attention ( thanks whoever that was ), but total xp from monsters was around 70-80 xp for a 1.5 hour trek. Has anyone with one or two high epics ( 30+) in their group done much better than that?
Cheers
Arandil

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:46 am

Arandil wrote:
Oh and BTW:
To all of you who ran around posting about how the changes to the XP system were the "Doom of Avlis" or would "Force epic's to craft to level" I just wanted to say:
"I told you so!" (ie I told you we would tweak)


True enough. Time for some feedback now. Last night a party of 7 ( I think ) went to visit the Lord of the Pit. As far as I know this is considered one of the most challenging areas on avlis? Anyhow, there were 3 high epics ( 2 *34, 1 38th I think ), 3 PCs in their twenties, and one PC under 20th ( not sure, but I think a fair way under 20 ). We had a good time and got some DM attention ( thanks whoever that was ), but total xp from monsters was around 70-80 xp for a 1.5 hour trek. Has anyone with one or two high epics ( 30+) in their group done much better than that?
Cheers
Arandil


The high-epics were lvl 36 (Tyrius), lvl 35 (Divinia) and whatever Fox and Quick are. Dale and Lotis are mid-low twenties and Moly was lvl 15. DM was Bobil *waves to NecroZombie*. Definately had a good time. XP for that trek of 3 hours (we had to get there, remember) was 47 total monster xp (prolly around 70 without xp-penalty indeed), 200 for quest and the rest was DM-cookie.

As this was probably the "old" new code, we'll try again when Deglos has been updated to the "new" new code. Would be helpful to have confirmation of this though. :wink:

Cheers,

Mickey.
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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:19 am

Fox is low to mid twenties..so not high epic ( too much RP, not enough powergaming!!! ). As we didn't have any summons, the only change likely to come into effect was the anti-towing code, which would have meant we'd have gotten less xp I think? As a rough guide...
Drahnul High Guards - 5xp
Portal Guardian - 9xp
Pit Lord - 4xp
Everything else - 1-2 xp

Thanks for the corrections Khaelindra.

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PostAuthor: loppy66 » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:30 am

Anca ( lvl 28 ) just tested the Sanctuary in Le'Or today.

Greater Pit Fiend: 4xp
Lich: 2xp
Demonic Flesh Golem: 31xp
Iron Golem: 1-2xp
High Medusa Priestress: 0xp
Manticores and Snake Guards: 0xp
Hill Giants: 1xp
Doom Knight (Commandant): 1-2xp
Dark Spider: 1xp
Mhorg: 1xp

...most of the other creatures 0xp!

So Le'Or Sanctuary seems to be for low levels then or what? Even DPed once in the School of Summoning...

Math might work right but I see no reason for him travelling there anymore.

~

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:35 am

loppy66 wrote:Hill Giants: 1xp


That's much. Aren't they below CR 10?
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PostAuthor: loppy66 » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:37 am

Not sure but I sensed that some really tough creatures which could damage me badly like a Iron Golem , Eldar Earth Elemental and Eldar Water Elemental even give me 1-2 xp ... like a Hill Giant ... so something is wrong with those Giants then. ;)
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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:12 am

Yeah, I noticed that. After we did the golem caves trip, a bunch of hill giants gave us the same amount of xp ( 1-2 ), that the adamantine golems at the bottom of the golem caves gave us. I know which I'd rather fight! :wink:

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:20 am

Arandil wrote:Yeah, I noticed that. After we did the golem caves trip, a bunch of hill giants gave us the same amount of xp ( 1-2 ), that the adamantine golems at the bottom of the golem caves gave us. I know which I'd rather fight! :wink:


As the system works with thresholds, that kind of thing can never be avoided in principle. Maybe adamantium golems need a CR-tweak, but essentially you always have a bandwidth in which monsters give the same amount of xp, being between CR10 and CR(lvl-7): all give 1-2 xp. In Deider's correction of my example: everything Divinia fights between CR 10 and CR 28 will give her 0-1 xp. Of course i'd rather fight a CR 10 HillGiant (which essentially is a walkover, not even a theoretical chance of hurting her) than a CR 28 Drahnul High Guard (which easily slaughters Divinia) but they both give 0-1. I don't think it's really worht the trouble to differenciate in the token xp amounts as essentially it's just that...token xp...

Whatever the system, there will always be "optimal" monsters to fight for xp. In the old system it were the CR4 monsters, which gave 2-5 for no resistance whatsoever. Now it's either CR 10 monsters (if you go for "the easy 1-2") or CR lvl-7 (if you go for real xp). All in all a much less exploitable system.

I still expect line-ups for rescueing the Farmer's Daughter though... 8)
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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:23 am

I hear Jertos been pretty busy with epic clients as well hehe.

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PostAuthor: loppy66 » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:35 am

Well, I know there shouldn't be many epics and I find the theory of the new system not that bad, but after all I mean in some areas it would be great, for example in the Underdark to create some epic spawns, which would make partying in epic level more attractive.

That of course should not happen in all areas, but well in some it would really fit, like the Underdark, some crypts or anything else like the Deep, like Mt. Smokes or such.

But of course it shouldn't be ~that~ mad like the hills of tumult.

Just an idea...

~

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PostAuthor: Marleh » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:41 am

Arandil wrote:I hear Jertos been pretty busy with epic clients as well hehe.


Shush you! Those were for crafting purposes only, I swear it.

No, seriously, they were. :na:
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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:57 am

Avlis isn't geared up for epics ( as in 30+ ), and presumably never will be. This seems to indicate ( and I may be totally wrong here ), that there won't be any areas with more than one or two critters of a high enough CR to give lvl30+ PCs more than 1-2 xp. That certainly seems to be the case currently ( anyone tried the orc caves under the new system? ). Under the old system, non-powergaming epics gradually progressed by getting 1d4+1 for everything..under that system, almost nothing gave more than 1d4+1 xp, but as EVERYTHING did, it was ok. Now that 50% or more of all encounters fall under the 0xp bracket, it would be nice if the top 10% gave a much higher amount of xp to compensate. That certainly seems to happen when you have epics of 20-25th lvl, but you soon seem to hit a ceiling above that, where almost nothing is challenging enough to make up the shortfall.
*puts on flameproof underwear*

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:11 pm

Arandil wrote: a ceiling above that, where almost nothing is challenging enough


I suggest you change "is challenging enough" to "has high enough CR awarded to it"...a lot is challenging for some... :oops:
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PostAuthor: Arandil » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:22 pm

er yeah, thats what I meant.

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PostAuthor: loppy66 » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:35 pm

So one has to craft, if one is over season 30... *pouts*?!? Why so? I mean ... oh well ...*sighs*
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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:42 pm

loppy66 wrote:So one has to craft, if one is over season 30... *pouts*?!? Why so? I mean ... oh well ...*sighs*


It's not that bad.

Divinia is lvl 35, and although she has been there for 7 months and she's only halfway to 36, she DOES get xp and i have played her on average twice per week i think. Last night in the Pit-run she made a total of 250 xp plus DM-cookies. Even discounting DM-cookies, which you cannot count on, 250 xp for a 4 hour evening isn't much, but also isn't all that bad. She could do some simple standard quests and get another 200 per week or so, so i think that, when played every other night, she'd level in about half a year (1000 xp per week). Slow, but not totally stagnant.
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PostAuthor: Grunt » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:47 pm

Keep in mind one thing about CRs that has been mentioned by a few on the team... the determined CR of most of these monsters is geared for a balanced party of 4 (I believe PJ said it somewhere nearby).

So for you to get that XP from the Iron Golem etc. ...keep in mind you were soloing it. Take 3 other people near your level, and that Iron Golem is gonna lie the f**k down pretty quickly. No challenge there, but your xp would have been the same across the board for the entire party (more or less except for things that fell into your challenge rating range for the party which I won't quote the math because I don't remember it. I think it had a Q to the power of pi, or cake...)

SOLO "XP vs difficulty" data isn't really helpful since this is a push to encourage partying. Go there with 3 others of varying range and try it out and see what your yield is, and also make sure the newest changes are in first :)
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PostAuthor: Deider » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:41 pm

Arandil wrote:I hear Jertos been pretty busy with epic clients as well hehe.


Jerto's getting a facelift soon. Epics will still be able to use him, but things will be a bit different...

Scripted quests are one of those 4 ways in Avlis to get xp. Nothing wrong with epics doing them. Wasn't there some guy who got to 20th just by farming (crops, not spawns)?
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