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XP Code Changes III: Chuck Norris Returns!

General discussion about Avlis

Moderators: Nighthawk4, Dungeon Masters

PostAuthor: Orleron » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:05 pm

Defender wrote:so, to set the record straight...

your still saying that there is a big fat goose-egg of XP to be had when fighting some things???

*sighs*



It's designed this way, yes. Some spawns are simply not meant to give you XP. Period. It's in the math.

We are prepared for people to come out of the woodwork and complain about this, but we are simply not going to make a system where everyone gets experience for everything.


If you want to debate the CR for some creatures as being set too low, that's valid, but realize something: there's thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of encounters on Avlis and a couple thousand NPC's/monsters in the pallette. Making the CR's completely fair across the board is not going to happen. It's too much work.
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PostAuthor: Grunt » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:07 pm

Nighthawk4 wrote:I left my last PW because of a Vault Wipe, amongst other reasons. :cry:

Fortunately, iirc, Orleron has said a number of times that we will never do a vault wipe. :wink:


Yeah it'd be a real pain for you to have to roll up all 37 characters again. :P

Thanks to Deider - and a number of others who were involved in this. A hell of a lot of work and often very little thanks.

A big :good: to Deider and we all owe you a big :drink:


Agreed! Speaking of drinks... stackable loot drops of 2-10 potions/b00Zes rock. It rocks so much that I find myself severely disappointed to search a corpse and find ....plain old mundane gold pieces :D (though the amount is nice)

Thanks again to the Mr T. 20/Chuck Norris 19/Shadowdancer 1 build.
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PostAuthor: Deider » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:08 pm

Defender wrote:so, to set the record straight...

your still saying that there is a big fat goose-egg of XP to be had when fighting some things???


Yes.

If your PC (or party's average) level is 17 or above and you kill a creature with a CR of 9 or less, you will get 0xp. That is the only situation in which you will always get 0xp.

A mutliclass penalty will cause you to get 0xp when others would gain 1xp.

Otherwise, you will always get XP for killing something.
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PostAuthor: Merago Jert » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:14 pm

Thanks again to the Mr T. 20/Chuck Norris 19/Shadowdancer 1 build


Deider's a damned cheeser! He only took that SD level for HiPS!
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PostAuthor: NecroZombie » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:20 pm

W00T for the D-Master
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PostAuthor: Sinbadsam » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:29 pm

Grunt wrote:
Nighthawk4 wrote:I left my last PW because of a Vault Wipe, amongst other reasons. :cry:

Fortunately, iirc, Orleron has said a number of times that we will never do a vault wipe. :wink:


Yeah it'd be a real pain for you to have to roll up all 37 characters again. :P


Hmm only 37,,,that means I need to create only 30 more wemic characters.

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:38 pm

Orleron wrote:
Defender wrote:so, to set the record straight...

your still saying that there is a big fat goose-egg of XP to be had when fighting some things???

*sighs*



It's designed this way, yes. Some spawns are simply not meant to give you XP. Period. It's in the math.


Actually, unless i read it very wrong, what he means is:

"So you mean that, because only Wilderness is updated, the huge towing-exploit giving thousands of XP when dragging a lowbie along in certain areas is still exploitable on the other servers?"

I thinks he wants the loophole closed on all servers right away. Not judging, just interpreting. :)
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PostAuthor: Naieth » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:20 pm

The numbers provided are complicated (or I am tired from work) but I applaud the tweaking. Any faith entrusted to these guys and girls is fully returned, fast revisions.

I'm interested in trying this all out, for sure. :)
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PostAuthor: Pathos Street » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:57 pm

That XP fix is fucking awesome.

Way to go.

:good:
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PostAuthor: Micah » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:02 pm

Chuck Norris FTW!
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PostAuthor: Humanist » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:44 pm

Well, it`s very complicated, so hurray for Deider!

Thanks a lot for the all time improvement of this world! :D
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PostAuthor: Aeveras » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:12 pm

Haven't tried it out yet, but it looks jawesome. You win, Deider! You win at winning!

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PostAuthor: Zyndro » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:22 pm

Pathos Street wrote:That XP fix is ---- awesome.

Way to go.

:good:


+1
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PostAuthor: Aspen_Stormcat » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:30 pm

Zyndro wrote:
Pathos Street wrote:That XP fix is ---- awesome.

Way to go.

:good:


+1


+2
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Re: XP Code Changes III: Chuck Norris Returns!

PostAuthor: Tigg » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:36 pm

Deider wrote:To make things clearer, all associates are counted just like PCs. If you are solo, you are a party of one. If you summon a familiar, you are a party of two, and will get the party bonus for xp, but your xp is now split evenly between you and your familiar. If in addition you Gate in a balor, you are a party of three, and the xp is split three ways.


I am trying to understand something about the xp being 'split'... has it always been this way with parties? Like, there is a certain amount of xp for a given creature, and all the party members divide it evenly? So, the more party members (assuming the same level for the sake of the example), the less everyone gets individually? Sorry if I'm being dense, I just had never realized that it worked that way.
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PostAuthor: szabot » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:02 pm

Too much numbers-mumbo-jumbo for me to understand it, but sounds good (because others say it is...). :P
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PostAuthor: Chemical-Burn » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:30 pm

I forgot reading in one of these threads, is there a way to figure out a creatures CR? So my lvl 25 needs to find something at least CR 10 to get any xp, but i have no idea what would be above 10 to be even considered a minimal challenge (by the game, everything is a challenge for this build :wink: )

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PostAuthor: anodynes » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:54 pm

I have been keeping my mouth shut all this time... gritting my teeth and biting my tongue... since New Year's Day (or so ) and that first surprise-release of the new exp system... testing these changes first-hand and loosing hope with each day that I would stay here. Frankly, I was very unhappy with the initial changes and saw many problems... and I had deja vu of another persistant world and its downward spiral when many players left due to similiar changes.

The truth is, if my main character ever becomes epic, it will be nothing short of a real years of time spent and that really has little to do with Avlis and its way of doing things; it has to do with me and my commitment.

As of today, I think I can live with the latest experience changes and still have some fun on Avlis. I do alot of grouping with all levels of characters and this was a major concern for me.

I want to thank the Avlis Team for the additional effort to tweek the exp system and for listening to constructive feedback provided by the player base. Game on!
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PostAuthor: Heronimous Fox » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:09 pm

Aspen_Stormcat wrote:
Zyndro wrote:
Pathos Street wrote:That XP fix is ---- awesome.

Way to go.

:good:


+1


+2


+5 Ive put on even more weight since Xmas...I'm nearly as fat as ghengiz! :drink:
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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:21 pm

Chemical-Burn wrote:I forgot reading in one of these threads, is there a way to figure out a creatures CR?


Smack it over the head and see how many exp you get. :)
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PostAuthor: tygermoon » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:04 pm

anodynes wrote:I want to thank the Avlis Team for the additional effort to tweek the exp system and for listening to constructive feedback provided by the player base. Game on!


I agree 110%, and want to give a great big YARR! for this, for both the Team, esp. Deider, and those of the players who gave constructive, reasoned feedback.

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Re: XP Code Changes III: Chuck Norris Returns!

PostAuthor: storminj » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:09 pm

I would also like to thank the team for their hard work on constantly making Avlis a even better place to be. This is why I have stuck with Avlis over 3 years, the people care about the game and the vision.

Now I do have one question on the associates penalty. I know this has been talked about for quite some time. I remember at one time they changed the exp to 'not' penalize for summoners doing their thing. A mage casting summons still uses a spell that he took in lieu of fire ball or something esle he could have used. This is even more true with the tweaking of the summons duration. In 3E a summoned creature is not considered part of CR. Now I will say I have a vested interest in this since my only alt is a druid and his thing is summoning and animal domination.

If this is not place to bring this up feel free to erase or move.

Deider wrote:
2. Associates are now counted when calculating avg. party level. An associate is defined as any creature under a PC’s control - familiars, summoned creatures, animal companions, and creatures dominated by spell, psionic power, or animal empathy. So if a mage solos a creature he will get some xp, and if he summons a creature to aid him he’ll also get xp. This includes the Gate spell - yes, you will get xp for using Gate summons now. If you fight things below your CR you probably won’t see much of a change in xp, but if you and your associates kill things equal to or above your CR, you will notice you gain more xp solo compared to with a party of associates in tow, because they are taking their cut of xp for helping you defeat things.

To make things clearer, all associates are counted just like PCs. If you are solo, you are a party of one. If you summon a familiar, you are a party of two, and will get the party bonus for xp, but your xp is now split evenly between you and your familiar. If in addition you Gate in a balor, you are a party of three, and the xp is split three ways.

To prevent exploitation, if an associate has less hit dice than its master, when avg. party level is calculated its master’s hit dice are counted for the calculation. Some examples:

A lvl1 mage summons a dire badger (3HD). Since the dire badger’s hit dice are higher than its master, its own HD are counted and the avg. party level is (1+3)/2=2.

A lvl30 cleric summons a dire badger. Since the dire badger’s hit dice are less than its master’s, its master’s HD are counted and the avg. party level is (30 + 30)/2 = 30. This prevents people from summoning wussy creatures and then telling them to stand back while they go off to fight, taking advantage of the reduced party lvl to gain more xp.

Note that the anti-tow code works hand in hand with this. If a lvl20 mage summons a 40HD balor, the avg. party lvl is calculated initially as (20+40)/2 = 30, BUT the 40HD balor is the highest-lvl party member, so the party level is adjusted to 40-7=33. In essence, this means that if you use a spell or psionics to gate in an uber creature, you’ll get xp for having it kick ass for you, but you’ll probably only get the token xp (1d2) unless you find some creatures with really high CR for it to kill.

I repeat, these changes are only live on the Wilderness as of this posting. Feel free to go check them out and post your feedback, both positive and negative, here.
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PostAuthor: frogmella » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:32 pm

I add my appreciation to Deider and others who work so tirelessly to improve our world. Thanks guys!

But forgive this dim one's stupidity ... what is 'towing'?

f
= = = =
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PostAuthor: Krator » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:37 pm

frogmella wrote:But forgive this dim one's stupidity ... what is 'towing'?


David the level 30 (29 Hoff / 1 SD) epic d00d meets level 1 1337 d00d:
[d00d] h3y h0ff! j00 c4n g3t m3h XPzzzz?
[Hoff] Sure d00d!
They go to the FoM, where Level 1, stands back with his crossbow, and gets XP for the Hoff pwning everything with Hoffness.
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PostAuthor: frogmella » Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:46 pm

All is now crystal clear! Thanks d00d, ... I mean Krator.
= = = =
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