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Recent Updates part II

General discussion about Avlis

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PostAuthor: Vroshgrak » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:18 pm

CR of a PC is always their level.

CR of a monster/NPC is based on level + abilities + items + stats + spells + tweaks by Toolset creator.
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PostAuthor: Chivalry » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:26 pm

Yeah.. that sounds good. Realistically I craft a heap and the reward for me was getting the resource I went for in the first place. Not overly interested in getting xp ((but who says no when it is given)) as I am comfortable with my characters levels and abilities but getting at least 1xp for something that can hurt is nice as I do travel with a few epics. Thanks for all the efforts..

and "I" didnt miss the part about Treasure Chests respawning. Buried humbly in the middle of the post and overlooked unless you read the lot. Having money to replace healing resources is going to balance the situation out nicely and as mentioned it will not be a server reset race to go and clear a dungeon.

If anything this should greatly increase the desire to party up as there will be a gold reward for actually going to a dungeon :lol: Nice tweak to the system and thanks to all the team.

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PostAuthor: gwydion2 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:41 pm

Vroshgrak wrote:CR of a PC is always their level.

CR of a monster/NPC is based on level + abilities + items + stats + spells + tweaks by Toolset creator.


True, for purposes of XP, it's still interesting to see what the actual CR of your PC would be if he were an NPC. There can be quite a lot of difference in the ratings of PC's of the same level.
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PostAuthor: kinerata » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:59 pm

its interesting to watch how things happen. i am a software developer and have been at sites when our software goes live. for the first few days EVERYONE hates it. people complain, they shake their fists and kick up a stink. they all want the old ways back. then time moves on and they get used to the new system, and say how bad the old one was. in general humans hate change, and software, be it gaming or commercial, will nearly always upset people when it changes.

having said that i actually quite liked this change. i tend to like to challenge my characters, and since i am pre epic on them all i have only seen a positive effect on my gaming. i now get more xp than i used to from monsters i frequently encounter. sure i get none off some that absolutely NAIL me, but i just make sure i avoid them if at all possible (which i already did before the patch :lol: ). a little bit of time and some tweaks should make this all work out. software development is all about copping heaps of flak after a change, then loads of praise in the long run. i cant see that changing any time soon.

but for me, a big load of praise to this new development. i am sure the issues for epics will work out in no time, and finally i am finding chests with something in them!

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PostAuthor: Li'll Divvil » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:44 pm

gwydion2 wrote:
Li'll Divvil wrote:On a related note, how do I calculate the CR of my own char?


Create a copy of your character, levels, stats etc. as an npc in the toolset.


uhm.. I am a toolset noob, how do I do that?
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PostAuthor: Nob » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:51 pm

Just use LETO and its automatic converter.

Easier that way.
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:54 am

Deider wrote:If you want to shit on someone, shit on me


If you really want to give someone some shit send it my way via PM.
I will be happy to discuss the problem with you.
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PostAuthor: Beary666 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:50 am

Whoa....

No more Rods of Grease?!?!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!

What a cruel world!!

:roll: :wink:
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PostAuthor: Deider » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:29 am

New changes are live on the Wilderness as of this posting. Test at will. :D
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PostAuthor: Dralix » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:06 am

Deider wrote:BTW, this change does not go for booze - they'll still drop in singles :)


I picked up a few stacks of booze.

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PostAuthor: VikingLord » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:24 am

WooHoo...I'm getting xp again..nice :D

Also..love the new loot drops.
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PostAuthor: TiVO25 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:27 am

[complete and total unrelated note]

Just switched off EOS expanded. Dude, Deider . . . I love your avatar!

Baby, you got ugly.

[/complete and total unrelated note]
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PostAuthor: loki70 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:18 am

I love the loot drops. Since I drink potions like they are soda, I really needed this :D

As for the xp, I got my level, so could care less. Now that my character is exactly what I wanted him to be, it doesn't matter any more. Great work, especially on the respawning chests. One question, though. Do the chests respawn, or just the stuff in them. Cause a lot of the chests get blown up by the baddies, and it would suck if that was a perma thing.
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PostAuthor: bolo » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:16 am

oops never mind. Hasn't gone in on Mikona yet. Musta been a nice coincidence :)

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PostAuthor: Vroshgrak » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:31 am

The contents of the chest respawn, the chests themselves will only respawn on module reboots/restarts.

So you damn sword jockeys better not smash all my chests open.
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PostAuthor: spokeydonkey » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:41 am

Tested this on the wilds and while I love the loot system (though it is a bit heavy on the stacks of booze), I have the same criticism about the xp system as I did last time: it screws casual players--or maybe just those who has a playstyle similar to mine.

After running through the warrens as a level 28 PC with a party of level ~30ish PCs, and doing some other M'Chekian areas, it seems that the xp is set to maximally 2 xp/kill for low level things (which is 99.9% of m'chek to me).

Back when I played a war PC, this might not have been a problem. I would sign on for 4-5 hours at a time, had a nice ready-made army guild party ready to go, and would kill hundreds of NPCs in our sweeps of the war areas. This led to super-fast levelling with the old 1d4+1 xp... which definitely deserved to be nerfed, and if I was still in the war, I would wholeheartedly agree that 1d2 xp was a good number to get from killing low level things.

But now my PC is no longer in a war, and has an RP position that means that it makes no sense to leave M'Chek to do dungeons. (I have, but I always feel dirty having to try to figure out good excuses for "I want to do an epic dungeon where I can actually get xp"). And lately, as I said in a prior post, my time is way down--so that I only have a couple hours per play session, usually--and at non-peak times.

The result of (a) not having a good reason to leave M'Chek, (b) not having time for long play sessions or "raid-style" gaming (that is, gathering a large party of epics to raid an epic dungeon), and (c) not having any desire whatsoever for crafting means that with only 1d2 xp per kill, my levelling, and that of players in the same boat, is going to be extremely low--I expect 6 months for 1 level at my current rate.

On the other hand, judging from my level rate back when I had 4+ hours/day to play--the time would be cut drastically. I could form larger parties then, and even if we couldn't do epic dungeons, we could do something like the LRC almost daily and get good xp, even if only getting 1d2 xp/kill.

So yes, this does seem to make powergaming harder, but at the expense of making levelling rediculously slow for the gamers who only log on for 1-2 hour sessions to play with their friends. It feels to me like I have a choice between sacrificing a lot of RL time to play this game or levelling extremely slowly on my limited time.

The one recommendation that would solve this completely and I think would make the system perfect is to make the first 250 xp/day just as before--that is, being 1d4+1 xp minimally. Once a PC hits that 250 xp cap, switch to the new system. That way, powergaming still doesn't occur, and casual gamers who hit epic don't have to feel like they need to schedule 4-hour raids or sink their entire play sessions into crafting in order to get xp.
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PostAuthor: Demandred » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:58 am

Deider wrote:New changes are live on the Wilderness as of this posting. Test at will. :D


This is the definition of griefing...

How can you do this to europeans who have to work until late GMT times? The team is so cruel...

Actually the team rocks, and so does Deider!

Wheelystars HOOOOOOOO!


:D
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PostAuthor: Heronimous Fox » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:59 am

I really dont know what expectations are as to leveling.

IN the past 2 years my main has been involved in three major plots, run a guild and did some crafting and has gone from lvl 19 - lvl 23 in that time. :?

What am I doing wrong?

Why cant I level at the speed I want to level?

Can we change the system so when I want faster xps I invoke a script to boost my XP gain. Particularly when I am within 2-3,000 XPs of leveling. In fact can we just ask a DM for an XP bonus at this time to ease the pain of having to wait. This would be a really good addition to the radial menu.

And can I have a bonus dm cookie for being a sarcastic prat.
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PostAuthor: denor firefly » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:12 am

Okay thanks for clarification how the CR match is made :) . I want more wine drops :D
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PostAuthor: Xandor Amakiir » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:26 pm

Two things:

One stacked boose :P always nice for the after adventure party ;)

Two: I partied up with somone lower in level from me, did a nice underdark crawl, loved the stacked potions :). But i didnt get any xp, wel almost none. usually i get xp from almost every critter down there, now i got almost none, and so did my lower level companion...
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PostAuthor: jaythespacehound » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:12 pm

Deider, said it beofre, will say it again:
You ROCK!

Also like to say a big thank you to the team for getting me back involved in Avlis after a while there were I was boredish heh.
Lot's of changes when I came back and I'm really enjoying myself.
Cheers!
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Oh, is there a bonus in alchololic drops if you have Dru~El in your deity field? El has 2 bags of drinks he's picked up over a couple of weeks :D
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:21 pm

spokeydonkey wrote:The one recommendation that would solve this completely and I think would make the system perfect is to make the first 250 xp/day just as before--that is, being 1d4+1 xp minimally. Once a PC hits that 250 xp cap, switch to the new system. That way, powergaming still doesn't occur, and casual gamers who hit epic don't have to feel like they need to schedule 4-hour raids or sink their entire play sessions into crafting in order to get xp.



What you are suggesting is commonly referred to in UO circles as a "Power hour", or something along those lines. Power scenarios are proven not to work in most game designs. What winds up happening is people will come in and get their 250 xp and then leave. No advantage is gained from that for the game as a whole.

Your feedback actually gives us the opposite impression of the one you sought to make.... :P Instead of telling us something is wrong, it is telling us we did something right. Thanks!


When you are epic, you have 2 choices: choose to not care about advancement, and focus on RP only. OR choose to level veeeeeerrrry slooooooowwwwwllllly regardless of whether you are a casual or hardcore player.


It should take you about 2 years to go from level 20 to 40 if you play for 2.5 hours per day. Roughly. Very roughly. Please don't quote me all over the place on that and start killing people who advance in 1.9 years after playing 2.4 hours per day.
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PostAuthor: Alporik » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:27 pm

Quick question (I would test this, but alas I have no epic characters and won't any time soon):

If XPs for epics have been modified to be veeeerrrrry sllooowwww, does this mean lots of 1xp per bad guy results?

If this is the case, I would suggest that the team decide how it feels about multiclass penalties. In other words, having experience come in 1 point chunks changes the -20% penalty to a -100% penalty after rounding. If, instead, the same creatures yielded 5 xps 20% of the time and 0 xp 80% of the time, then the multiclass penalty would again be -20%. Either way works from a game mechanics point of view. If we think that multiclassing (barring favored classes and PRCs) is really that painful in Avlis, then so be it. I just think that we should not unintentionally further penalize those who multiclass due to the rounding adjustment. Just my two cents on all this.
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PostAuthor: PlasmaJohn » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:36 pm

Alporik wrote:Quick question...

First, we don't tweak for specific builds. That leads to insanity.

Second, the guy doing the changes and the guy advising him both suffer from the multiclass penalty. It's up to you to decide if we do or do not care about it :D
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PostAuthor: Deider » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:42 pm

What PJ said. The token xp gained for killing things way below your level takes into account the multiclass penalty. You will not always get 0xp.

Also, if you want to talk about epics, I stress that the token xp only applies when killing things far below their level. Especially with the new code that accounts for groups, epics can make a great deal of xp if they are able to defeat things closer to their level, or if they party up with lowbies and midbies and defeat creatures close to that party's level or higher.
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