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Consistency in Crafting

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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: jwhite5730 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:43 pm

I am ok with making them cost more xp to make....Heck xp is not that hard to get. :D :D :D :D
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Zerub » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:58 pm

Gorgon wrote:
Zerub wrote:I would rather see the Robes not have DI. That makes it where the Armorer's can make something that is not doable by Jewelry or Tailoring and thus making a better incentive for people to become Armorers.

This would mean anyone who can't wear armor is out of luck too.


Not really. They are just out of luck on DI, but they could still have DR. No difference than the people that want AC 1 or above armor being out of luck on Saves and Stats. As it stands right now, the Robes get it all.

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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:20 pm

Unless something changed, robes don't get save perks AFAIK.

Just an observation, but there's also another solution that makes more sense, if you really want them more equal, rather than taking DI away from robes, or adding stats to armor. :P
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Moredo » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:35 pm

Isn't the gear that we can create strong enough?

For what it's worth DI is insanely powerful (due to how the mechanics work), having it on plates, for tanks to use (often they have high HP, and DR feats, and other DR gear) could be too much.

Even though Deider was joking (I think) I agree with him, the only gear that needs buffs in crafting are ammunition weapons like Shurikens and Throwing Axes. That is the only way to make such weapons viable, and it won't cause that much of an impact as they are lost on usage.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:41 pm

*Hugs Moredo's old school thinking*

I was wondering when someone would bring up how much things have jumped in the last while.

Nerf it all! (kidding... honest :anmachen: )
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Ninjar » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:41 pm

Moredo wrote:Isn't the gear that we can create strong enough?

For what it's worth DI is insanely powerful (due to how the mechanics work), having it on plates, for tanks to use (often they have high HP, and DR feats, and other DR gear) could be too much.

Even though Deider was joking (I think) I agree with him, the only gear that needs buffs in crafting are ammunition weapons like Shurikens and Throwing Axes. That is the only way to make such weapons viable, and it won't cause that much of an impact as they are lost on usage.

They're also consumable to an outrageous degree.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: krackq » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:46 pm

Would it still be an issue if you could no longer put stats on robes too? Just saying.. some of the comments are looking at this from the perspective of making things more even by making it more powerful because something's not lining up by perspective.. an alternative could be that stats just get removed entirely from robes then there's no difference at all in armor vs robes/cloth. Wouldn't that solve the issue as well? Maybe robes were accidentally made too powerful craftable as to what could be added?
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:51 pm

That was what I was hinting at in my reply as well, but I didn't want it to be taken in the wrong way (I don't do crafting updates). :)

It seems like the simplest solution to that specific issue, since almost everything else has them, plus a bunch of IG ways to get them added to armor or robes (yup, FOIG). *)
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: krackq » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:54 pm

Exactly.. tweaks can go multiple ways.. if something needs balanced the solution isn't always to make other things stronger. It could be to even things out.. something just needs to be taken down a notch. In the end, the previous few posts that mention how good some gear you can make these days are right.. with a lot of effort and gold you can get a pretty sweet setup.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Zerub » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 am

krackq wrote:Would it still be an issue if you could no longer put stats on robes too? Just saying.. some of the comments are looking at this from the perspective of making things more even by making it more powerful because something's not lining up by perspective.. an alternative could be that stats just get removed entirely from robes then there's no difference at all in armor vs robes/cloth. Wouldn't that solve the issue as well? Maybe robes were accidentally made too powerful craftable as to what could be added?


That would be good too and as far as DI go, I wish it was only 10% max really. Possibly 15%, but 25% is really a bit crazy. I had been waiting for years for armor to get updated, but really never expected to see +5 AC or 25% Immunity. I was really hoping for maybe +3 Stuff with a few other things maybe. I know things have changed in the years and I will have fun no matter what, but I just wish it was back to being a low magic world. :)

Scott

And as far as
Gorgon wrote:Nerf it all! (kidding... honest :anmachen: )


+1111111 :)

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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Tel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:48 am

Name the Idea : Artificing equipment slot-balancing

What Is the Idea : Value adjustment on crafted item power

Why is the Idea : Same/similar-slot items can give significantly different range of "value added"

1: Armor (Cloth, Leather, Chain, Plate)
  • Cloth - remove +Stat option, bring this into line with what can be enchanted in same slot
  • Leather - currently (2AC / 6 Dex), should switch to Padded (1AC / 8 Dex) or add as new recipe
  • Chain - item-specific enchantment -Spell Interrupt% should be available to make this enticing for steel casters w/o auto-still spell (basic -20% only?)
  • Plate - no change
Pro's : Brings Cloth back to the same line as armor, increases desirability of Leather (now padded) ... best armor options are 0/9+ (base dex 16), 1/8 (base dex 14), 8/1 (base dex 6~12) in terms of maximum protection for your character.
Con's : need to change or add a new recipe (padded). Need to create a recipe that is usable only in chain to make it desirable compared to Padded/Leather (besides materials making the other harder to get)

2: Weapons v Monk Gloves
  • Weapons -
  • Monk Gloves -
  • Elemental Kits (weapons) - Basic kit adjusted to 2-damage, limit on only 2 elements is strict enough this benefits "entry" level weapons to bring them to slightly higher than their regularly crafted counterparts
  • Damage Immunity Kits - Can be added to work like elemental kits for +damage of the matching type
Pro's - slightly more damage, but vastly improved lower-level weapon quality
Con's - higher end options get slightly improved (+3, Keen, 2, 2) v (+3, Keen, 1d4 or +3, Keen, 1, 1)

3: "Accessories" (Rings, Amulet, Belt, Boots, Cloak, Helm)
  • Helm - Removed DI%, Added Stat+, they are now in line with the other slots
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:58 am

I just hope what ever happens, it continues to be almost impossible for anyone to be good at everything and that most people have to choose one thing they are good at.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Zerub » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:51 am

silverfields2 wrote:I just hope what ever happens, it continues to be almost impossible for anyone to be good at everything and that most people have to choose one thing they are good at.


Oh..oh..oh. I really wish it was that way. That is how we had the crafting setup in Avlis 2. That would really be nice. You could be super good at one, or maybe mediocre at a bunch.

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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 am

Yeah, a total revamp would be nice, but so many issues with how it affects current crafter levels and what they know already... plus the man hours to do it.

We all have that dream, but I am not holding my breath on it happening (and as Grunt says "not it"). :mrgreen:
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Micah » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:47 am

Tel wrote:Name the Idea : Artificing equipment slot-balancing

What Is the Idea : Value adjustment on crafted item power

Why is the Idea : Same/similar-slot items can give significantly different range of "value added"

1: Armor (Cloth, Leather, Chain, Plate)
  • Cloth - remove +Stat option, bring this into line with what can be enchanted in same slot
  • Leather - currently (2AC / 6 Dex), should switch to Padded (1AC / 8 Dex) or add as new recipe
  • Chain - item-specific enchantment -Spell Interrupt% should be available to make this enticing for steel casters w/o auto-still spell (basic -20% only?)
  • Plate - no change
Pro's : Brings Cloth back to the same line as armor, increases desirability of Leather (now padded) ... best armor options are 0/9+ (base dex 16), 1/8 (base dex 14), 8/1 (base dex 6~12) in terms of maximum protection for your character.
Con's : need to change or add a new recipe (padded). Need to create a recipe that is usable only in chain to make it desirable compared to Padded/Leather (besides materials making the other harder to get)

2: Weapons v Monk Gloves
  • Weapons -
  • Monk Gloves -
  • Elemental Kits (weapons) - Basic kit adjusted to 2-damage, limit on only 2 elements is strict enough this benefits "entry" level weapons to bring them to slightly higher than their regularly crafted counterparts
  • Damage Immunity Kits - Can be added to work like elemental kits for +damage of the matching type
Pro's - slightly more damage, but vastly improved lower-level weapon quality
Con's - higher end options get slightly improved (+3, Keen, 2, 2) v (+3, Keen, 1d4 or +3, Keen, 1, 1)

3: "Accessories" (Rings, Amulet, Belt, Boots, Cloak, Helm)
  • Helm - Removed DI%, Added Stat+, they are now in line with the other slots


Thank you for this. It is incredibly readable :-D
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: jwhite5730 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:35 am

I would be ok with the above items modded ...
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Micah » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:39 pm

Tel I pulled your proposal back so CCC and DMs who know what they are looking at can discuss it in more detail. No promises, of course. As has been said, even great ideas sometimes require manpower that isn't there. Let's see how it goes. Update circa 2 weeks.

Again, thank you for its readability.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Micah » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:35 pm

It'll be another week or so - a big behind-the-scenes project is going live tomorrow so this fell quiet teamside - but I'm wrapping up that discussion now.
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Re: Consistency in Crafting

PostAuthor: Micah » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:01 am

So here's the result of our own talk that I've owed you for 2 *cough3cough* weeks. These aren't intended to be binding answers, as it was just a discussion teamside, but its food for thought on both sides of le curtain.

Micah wrote:
Tel wrote:Name the Idea : Artificing equipment slot-balancing

What Is the Idea : Value adjustment on crafted item power

Why is the Idea : Same/similar-slot items can give significantly different range of "value added"

1: Armor (Cloth, Leather, Chain, Plate)
  • Cloth - remove +Stat option, bring this into line with what can be enchanted in same slot More inclined to scrap DI and keep +Stat. Intended to be distinct from armors. Existing cloth with DI wouldn't be affected.
  • Leather - currently (2AC / 6 Dex), should switch to Padded (1AC / 8 Dex) or add as new recipe Leather will stay. Could add Padded (or other types), but adding the recipies is a lot of work for low return (at present staffing & demand). Somebody would have to make a pet project/labor of love out of it.
  • Chain - item-specific enchantment -Spell Interrupt% should be available to make this enticing for steel casters w/o auto-still spell (basic -20% only?) Nope. Take Autostill.
  • Plate - no change
Maybe add DI to shields in the future. Maybe.
Pro's : Brings Cloth back to the same line as armor, increases desirability of Leather (now padded) ... best armor options are 0/9+ (base dex 16), 1/8 (base dex 14), 8/1 (base dex 6~12) in terms of maximum protection for your character.
Con's : need to change or add a new recipe (padded). Need to create a recipe that is usable only in chain to make it desirable compared to Padded/Leather (besides materials making the other harder to get)

2: Weapons v Monk Gloves
  • Weapons -
  • Monk Gloves -
  • Elemental Kits (weapons) - Basic kit adjusted to 2-damage, limit on only 2 elements is strict enough this benefits "entry" level weapons to bring them to slightly higher than their regularly crafted counterparts We talked about improving damage bonus progression in general, where weapon size affects outcome (bastard sword fire > longsword fire> dagger) to a max of the base weapon damage (d10, d8, d4). Informal brainstorming, though somebody may be willing to take a closer look.
  • Damage Immunity Kits - Can be added to work like elemental kits for +damage of the matching type Unlikely at the present. I think it is cool but we didn't discuss this one much.
Also discussed physical damage types, but the game does not handle them well once you start using enhancement spells and such on them.
Pro's - slightly more damage, but vastly improved lower-level weapon quality
Con's - higher end options get slightly improved (+3, Keen, 2, 2) v (+3, Keen, 1d4 or +3, Keen, 1, 1) Capping ele to base wpn damage would help normalize big weapons vs dual finessable weapons

3: "Accessories" (Rings, Amulet, Belt, Boots, Cloak, Helm)
  • Helm - Removed DI%, Added Stat+, they are now in line with the other slots
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