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The dead horse known as Death

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The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue May 03, 2016 12:04 am

Gotcha!
Last edited by surfer69 on Tue May 03, 2016 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Shardthepious » Tue May 03, 2016 12:08 am

number 1-2-3-4 are probably jokes right?!

Okay what i thought, funny lol
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Seka » Tue May 03, 2016 12:17 am

Arelith (not that I ever play there, nope!) has a system I really like called the Mark of Destiny. You can select it at character creation, and once you've taken it, you get a small XP bonus every (in-game) hour. The trade-off? 10 deaths and you're toast. Done. Gone forever. Permadeath.

Believe me, it makes a huge difference in how you play your character. I've been considering proposing it for Avlis, but allowing players to opt into it at any time, not just character creation.

The important thing to note is that it's OPTIONAL. Those who enjoy the challenge take it, and those who don't ... don't.
Last edited by Seka on Tue May 03, 2016 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: krackq » Tue May 03, 2016 12:21 am

Dead horse! This is one of those debate through the ages sort of things that I don't think will ever be solved in a great way.

If you impose any sort of mechanical game penalization for dying such as xp loss, level loss, character loss, or anything that's a real tangible penalization, I think that you do suddenly make character death more real in a sense that the player may take it seriously. There's two pitfalls though I can see.. just because they take it ooc'ly more seriously now doesn't mean they take it ic'ly seriously. You can't make someone rp death more seriously. The second is more related to what happens in the instances of client crash, lag death, and other out of player control circumstances that get them killed.

Everyone's different and their reactions, especially ic'ly, are all over the spectrum. It would be nice to be taken more seriously, but I even see it situationally. I rp it this way as well depending on my mood etc. When things are more serious, I tend to be more serious about it. When I'm doing a fun dungeon run and I'm there just to have fun and relax with some good people and a lighthearted run, I take it less seriously. It may be inconsistent, but in the end I'm here to have fun and help others have fun as well where I can.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: SaraEF » Tue May 03, 2016 12:23 am

who has the horseolich image?
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Katroine » Tue May 03, 2016 12:29 am

I'd say all my deaths in the last year have been lag related, client related, etc. Not bad character choices.
A system that penalizes harshly would make me play less.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Tue May 03, 2016 12:47 am

I HATE DYING!

I reorganize all my quick slots, reload my spell book and figure out where everything is now in my inventory! That's enough of a penalty!

UUUUgggg!

Dying sucks.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Grunt » Tue May 03, 2016 12:51 am

Just fucking play. :)
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: surfer69 » Tue May 03, 2016 2:45 am

So that's a yes to all 4? Sweet.

Discussion over, game on!
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Sephira » Tue May 03, 2016 3:15 am

April Fools was last month.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Cameron Klym » Tue May 03, 2016 3:38 am

I remember back when, the team of the day asked players if they wanted any sort of death penalty and the majority voted yes. And then after players learned about lagg and all those out of control issues they all voted to get rid of it or modify it so its like it Is now with a death quest. I remember before was the death quest to get exp back, Tor lost , well I will just say an unspecified a number of levels due to another players actions IG. From that moment onwards, I really got to dislike the death penalty system on Avlis. Because unlike a lot of people back then said, that if you died you deserved a penalty. Fair enough but when you mostly got killed by Lagg or by another player that went , a little overboard, it sure gave me a new perspective on being penalize for dieing. And also what are you supposed to do when your PCs culture does not fear dieing in battle. So in my long about babbling way, I am just saying that in my case , having my PCs deaths be mostly from Lagg and issues like that, I am not in favour of any of those 4 option.

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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Tue May 03, 2016 11:54 am

Nice try I've got a post I'm writing up. I knew you were BSing with the ideas but I got this lol. Still gnna post it :P
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Tue May 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Man, I had an awesome system concept. The #1 issue we have is that IC, we are suggested to treat death the same as we do IRL. But the mechanics simply don't line up with this and require an extensive amount of RP and effort to pretend that it does. The system below gives a bit more severe consequences, but nothing EXTREME. It will certainly give extra incentive to be more careful about dying, as well as give a CVC death a bit more of an impact with consequences that you'd want to avoid.

I can't find the post about the system- but I recall the basics of it Found it!! I'd suggest two things be revamped. The deathplane system, then the consequences system.

1.) Change to death system

Darkfire wrote:Halls of Dagath is the universal death plane. You can wait there where you are able to be raised/resurrected or you can continue on (talk to an NPC, go through an archway, walk down some mysterious hall, or whatever) and be returned to a temple where you are respawned with an XP loss.

What "happens" once you go through the archway, talk to the NPC, etc. is unknown. Maybe you visited your plane and something happened and you returned. Maybe you smoked all the mellow and got kicked out. Maybe you kicked all the manes' asses. Doesn't really matter.


Darkfire wrote:Consequences without being resurrected:

1.) XP loss, no more than one penalty per 24 RL hours. Amount is added onto the cap to allow for regain.
2.) Temporarily stat penalties.


Explaining:
1.) The XP added onto the cap allows you to regain the XP you lost if you put in some extra effort. With Artificing, it is already possible to have XP that is taken away be reapplied to the maximum of your XP cap so it can be regained. Same principle here.

2.) Temporary debuffs could be in the form of level drains or something. Make them only removable by a Greater Restoration. Make sure they are removed during another DP so the effects don't stack because that would end up rendering your character unplayable if caught in a bad situation. We want penalties that can be overcome, not things that entirely disable or fuck you.


Addition: make returning through Dagath Hall's the exact same as being targeted with Raise Dead (the consequences above). That way only two systems are needed: "Resurrected" and "Not resurrected".



The other addition I can't find. So will have to wing it:

2.) Consequences / more

The XP loss above does include the basic penalties. Due to the "unless resurrected" portion above, it may be sufficient to skip this section. But this section gives a "permanent" feel to it and is a bit more complicated. You get a "mark of death" type thing. Being resurrected does -not- incur a counter onto the mark of death.

1.) Each time you die within a 1 hour period - you get a counter added to your mark of death
2.) Counters do not decay over time
3.) A system of quests, including DM rewards, can remove counters. Clerics will be able to craft a single-use item that can remove a counter. Only 1 counter per 48 hours can be removed via quests.
4.) If you have 10 counters and die, you receive a significantly larger penalty: a permanent XP loss (larger) and a week long de-buff that cannot be restored by any clerics, and whatever other consequences that would be agreed upon at the time Only a single counter will be removed.
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: JollyOrc » Tue May 03, 2016 12:17 pm

Here's how things worked somehere else:

Everything that happens after your PC died, was modeled to the premise that death should usually be the end of your current adventure. Not necessarily of all adventures, but, unless your pals revive you, this one is over for now. Getting back to life is meant to be something that will take a while.

On the other hand, I didn't want to make separate deathplanes for all the alignments. This is a small server after all. Instead all of you will probably end up in the City of Mourning. (There is one other option, for those who refuse Drekons offer. You probably want to seek him out after a while though...)

The City of Mourning is a desolate place, but if you look for it, you will find a crack in it's walls to escape it into the barren desert of your conscience. It is not just one area, but a whole plane. There's lots to explore there, or just to enjoy your afterlife.

Determined souls will eventually find someone to guide them back into the lands of the living. But know that there is a price to pay, and it will be harder to pay for those who heaped guilt upon themselves...


So yeah, my take was that dying should be something that stops your quest, that inconveniences your character - but also shouldn't be boring and annoying for the player. So we made the Death Plane an interesting place to be in, with a variety of quests, NPCs and places to hang out. Or you could opt to stay in the land of the living as a ghost - invisible, unable to interact or influence anything, not quite understanding what is said...

Whichever one chose: There was no XP loss or anything. I took the time lost in the deathplane as more than enough punishment. As we never finished the looting system, you didn't even have to rearrange your inventory!

It worked for that world, with its own cosmology, but as much as I'd love to see those things live again, they are not for Avlis, for a variety of reasons...
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Re: The dead horse known as Death

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Tue May 03, 2016 12:45 pm

Or just keep penalties as they are, but TOTALLY VOTE FOR UNIVERSAL HALLS OF DAGATH IDEA
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