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How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

General discussion about Avlis

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How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

I (think I) know it all, but would attend/assist in teaching it to others (and maybe learn something new).
4
17%
I know some, but want to learn more.
12
52%
I know enough about it. Classes are a waste of my time.
0
No votes
I get my recipes from other teachers, so I don't need to use research mode.
2
9%
I don't do/hate crafting, but like voting in polls that don't apply to me (Yay, this one does now!).
5
22%
 
Total votes : 23

How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:41 am

There is a poll to go along with this topic for my own information, since I've been considering holding some IC classes on the Avlis research system. If everyone says they know it all, then I obviously don't need to bother with lessons, so please answer truthfully. The classes will be IC, which means a bitch to do, since the system itself is mostly OOC. I'm pretty anal about IC vs OOC, so asking questions IG with an OOC prefix, or in tells, won't get you much (Anyone who knows me knows "we hates dem!").

For the rest of you who don't know me... My name is Gorgon, and I'm a crafting addict. If there is a recipe I don't know in a craft I do, I need to figure it out. At one time, long ago, I was head of research for the Avlis jeweler's Association, and I am currently the leader of that (less than active) crafting guild. Long before that, I was a tailoring fanatic, and it is still my main love. There is no official tailoring guild in Avlis to this day (though a few groups have taught it very well over the years). The most experienced tailors in Avlis were happy keeping it as an informal thing, more like a family, and it has worked quite well.

There was a time when we didn't have research mode, and solving recipes was a matter of dumping as many different things (in bulk) into a crafting apparatus as possible, and hope you had the right items, and enough of each to make it. Then you had to figure out what got used up making it. Then came research mode (and bulk mode), and you could start using common sense... and single ingredients for testing once, you knew how. Sure, there was some risk of destroying what you used in testing when wrong, but if you know how that happens, it can be avoided entirely.

I've added a few links at the end with some OOC info on the initial research/bulk mode stuff by the team (and feedback from testers), which is still somewhat useful. I don't want to make assumptions about how recipes are learned (or taught) these days, since any IC teaching and interaction is a good thing (within the posted rules), but if you spend some time experimenting with it (ok, a lot of time) you can learn how to safely research all sorts of things without an ep-chest beside you to dump into the crafting table (and watching most of it get destroyed). Being taught a recipe by someone else lets you make it, but learning it on your own is an accomplishment, and very satisfying.

When they added all the new recipes we have today, along with the new research system around the same time, I didn't have my own shop with a chest by crafting. I used a loom in PE for a few weeks, and a lot of trial and error, to figure out most of the 197 tailoring recipes (196 now after a certain nerf and some tweaks). I didn't quite learn them all then, but did figure out how to use the system. From that, I figured out that I only needed to carry half a bag full of stuff around to test anything else in the list I didn't know yet, and just use that and 1 new thing to try any new ingredient (another perk of the system). I worked with others in that "family" I mentioned to research the remaining recipes (ego aside, there are a few other really good crafters around), and we learned even more about the system itself in the process. The RP along the way was also priceless. These days I wouldn't be surprised if anything in crafting can be learned by asking someone who knows it, but back then, every new thing was a reward in itself because no one else knew how. Nothing much has changed here in a while, but you never know. If new recipes are added, are you going to wait for someone else to figure them out so they can teach your ~supposed~ master of the craft? They don't just hand lists of new recipes to crafters and guilds (kinda against the rules for them to give them out in the first place). Even if you could just ask someone to teach you how to make something, wouldn't you like to figure it out on your own? Better yet, be the one teaching the other old farts?

Crafting links:
Crafting on the Avlis Wiki - Basic info, but several assumptions and mistakes, like getting xp from any research mode recipe (being player maintained has its disadvantages).
Jewelcrafting Debut - The initial topic for jewelry/gemcutting using the new system. Mining/chopping started before it using the same base, but wasn't a part of actual crafting. Very long, lots of changes along the way (and more after it), and only some OOC mechanics talked about. Jewelry and Gemcutting are still the only crafts that uses a tool (the same one) that can modify your chance of crafting success (cast all the spells you want, but nothing helps your success rate besides a tool with a bonus in any craft). Extraction tools work in the same way when mining and chopping (axes and picks), but are not used at the crafting tables. Only for mining (its own skill for ore and gemcutting for gems, both using different picks) and chopping (axes for carpentry), and you may be able to improve the extraction results a bit with certain magic. Buy the best pick or axe you can, and if a DM drops a nice one, guard it with your life! They are rare... really rare. I only mention it here because it was (briefly) mentioned in that topic, and something very hard to figure out as an IC thing. Non-martial feat extraction tools are possible as well...

*Note* Artificing in all its forms is a different system, so none of this applies to it. Some materials are created using standard crafting, but after that, it is totally different.
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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: SaraEF » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:25 am

nerf crafters

nerf mages

speak common
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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: silverfields2 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:32 am

*crafts to have another reason to role play*
Just hear those sleigh bells jingle-ing, ring-ting tingle-ing, too
Come on, it's lovely weather for a sleigh ride together with you
Outside the snow is falling and friends are calling "yoo hoo"
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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: S?retur » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:22 am

Where's the "I knew quite a lot, but it's been so long, I've forgotten much/most of it" option? *sighs* :roll:
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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: Zerub » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:46 am

I would probably show up if I could. I use to enjoy sitting aorund talking about tailoring and such with Kraven years ago.

From that, I figured out that I only needed to carry half a bag full of stuff around to test anything else in the list I didn't know yet, and just use that and 1 new thing to try any new ingredient (another perk of the system)


I am curious to how that would work if you know nothing that is in the recipe. I guess on a whole most tailoring recipes will include one of several types of tailoring material that I put in a bag to test if that is what you mean.

Scott

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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: tizmo » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:51 pm

I'm also a crafting addict. I recently learned the basics about Research Mode from classes at ACE, but I would love to spend time with other people that enjoy crafting! I would definitely appreciate lessons that cover any of the following list of topics:

1. How tools/spells/abilities affect your resource extraction successes. (wood, ore, gems)
2. How spells/abilities affect your crafting success rate and learning ability (xp and success rate)
3. More info about using research mode to solve unknown recipes.

Thanks!

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Re: How well do you know Avlis' crafting - Research Mode?

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:52 am

tizmo wrote:I would definitely appreciate lessons that cover any of the following list of topics:

1. How tools/spells/abilities affect your resource extraction successes. (wood, ore, gems)
2. How spells/abilities affect your crafting success rate and learning ability (xp and success rate)

Both of these are questions folks have tried to test and theorize over the years, but when it comes down to it, they are pretty basic game mechanics. Extremely simple in fact, but (AFAIK) they haven't been made public by the team in any official posts, other than that one topic I linked.

Until the team makes any further official mechanic posts, you'll have to experiment with what helps get you more XP IG (the last part of your second item). People have been doing it for over a decade IG, and it hasn't changed much, so guilds and other crafters usually have pretty good info there. It is pretty obvious, including how it caps when you test a bit IG with stuff you know well. IG it can be explained in a single sentence that isn't hard to understand.

As far as things helping success, I already repeated that bit from that topic. For the crafting tables, only a tool bonus helps, and only 2 crafts use a tool (the same tool). NOTHING ELSE IMPROVES CRAFTING SUCCESS besides your level in the craft (DMs can ignore stuff like that obviously)! If I teach a class on the system, you may also find out why that can be a bad thing too (Um, not the DM thing, but needing a tool :oops: ).

Extraction (mining and chopping) also get a tool bonus (or maybe we are spending gold buying better ones just because they look good?), and maybe some limited perks from other buffs. Very limited, and capped (gem sizes are also limited by skill at lower levels, so you want all the help you can get). Get the best tool you can (for looks of course).

#3 in your list is the main reason for the classes. Being able to not only research stuff you can possibly make with fairly good success, but also the things listed as near impossible, without actually trying to make something (or wasting materials), is pretty cool. You can figure out exactly what you need to make something before you would even think about trying to make it (assuming you can see it in your list).
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