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Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:16 am
Author: Belasco
So in the course of chatting with a few other DMs and later on with some older players the topic of IC forum communication came up...or, rather, the lack there of.

In many guilds the forums serve as IC archives
In the taverns they work like a newspaper or a way to spread common gossip
As a DM IC postings about events do 2 things:
-a. Makes the DM feel appreciated
-b. Gives us a way of maintaining continuity for individual PCs (which is harder than you may think)


I know I know, it's 4am and you meant to be in bed at 11pm but that damn DM caught you just as you were logging off ;) . So don't bother with saying anything that night, but maybe jot something down the next day. A lot of times a few small lines serve as a jumping off point for other people involved in the event. Not every post needs to be epic, not every event needs to be posted, either. And I don't think anyone's going to have their feelings hurt because something they ran isn't getting any press, but if you're looking for a way to let a DM know they did a good job an IC post does it better than pretty much anything else.

Thanks!
Belasco

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:55 am
Author: Gorgon
*gives this post 2 green thumbs up* :2thumbs:

As a player, I'll also say I will do my best to poke, prod and encourage other people to report in some way IC (within my main's 8 cha skillz).

Lately I've been walking in on events I wasn't really a part of, and get enough frustration from people trying to keep stuff vague or secret IG. Fine and good. That's how things go IG. I can understand not reporting it when it is a specific guild outing, but it seems every time I start asking what is going on, everyone looks at me like I'm an idiot for not knowing x, y, z and whatever else are the reason for the event. How the hell am I supposed to know that without a post to inform the rest of us?

Anyways, posting is gud 8-)

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:11 pm
Author: loki70
My thought is always that, since I nearly always come in about midway through and have generally no idea what's going on, an IC post from me would be gibberish. Or more gibberish. Or just phenomenally off. I'll give a DM a rave, generally in a tell, or IRC, or the boards if neither one of those work. But yeah, there should be more posts about stuff so that we can have some idea what's going on, without OOC knowledge to back it up.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:14 pm
Author: JennyH
Re: Publicly posting plot details

Making something like [GunnJ's post here] is rarely possible or even advisable until the plot in question is well and truly completed. I think that everything that can be talked about in the taverns has.

The vast majority of plots I have been aware of in my near five years here have involved information that cannot be divulged without irreparable harm to those faction(s) I supported. That leaves very little left to post about other than "... gibberish. Or more gibberish. Or just phenomenally off." that loki so aptly described.

The other difficulty is that there are significant NPC activities that the general population should be able to observe, but players cannot post about without violating the injunction against speaking (or acting) for NPC's at least not without coordinating with a DM (which can be harder than it sounds).

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:28 pm
Author: Brayon
JennyH wrote:Re: Publicly posting plot details

Making something like [GunnJ's post here] is rarely possible or even advisable until the plot in question is well and truly completed. I think that everything that can be talked about in the taverns has.

The vast majority of plots I have been aware of in my near five years here have involved information that cannot be divulged without irreparable harm to those faction(s) I supported. That leaves very little left to post about other than "... gibberish. Or more gibberish. Or just phenomenally off." that loki so aptly described.

The other difficulty is that there are significant NPC activities that the general population should be able to observe, but players cannot post about without violating the injunction against speaking (or acting) for NPC's at least not without coordinating with a DM (which can be harder than it sounds).


I have to disagree with you on this one.

A. You can always do a Narrative of what you see, and do in an event that is part of a plot. Specific details don't have to be given out, but a post about 5 adventurers out looking for loot, and beating on a few bugbears, is good.

B. Unsure if your post meets the No NPC thing? Ask a DM.

C. Want to write something that involes a NPC, or shows NPC movements? Ask a DM.

Lastly, as I stated in other posts about this topic:

GUILDS NEED TO BE MORE PUBLIC!!!


The "oh its secret stuff," really grinds my gears! (must admit I am horrible about this too in the guilds my PC is involved in.) As a challenge to Guild Leaders, start making public posts about what is going on. I see no reason why if a Guild is doing something that the public can see, that it is not posted publicly. Extra Cookies in it too.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:10 pm
Author: Lucien
It's worth pointing out that IC posts don't need to be objective, accurate, or even remotely true. Just IC.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:45 pm
Author: rk57957
Lucien wrote:It's worth pointing out that IC posts don't need to be objective, accurate, or even remotely true. Just IC.


Boy is that true, just ask Sir for news and you get all sorts of "interesting if not quite true" tidbits.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:27 pm
Author: Sable the White
Actually, We have lost a lot of players and a few DMs over plot secrets and involvment. When most people don't get DM love, they get bored and move on. We have to remember that this is a game for enjoyment, not to cause stress.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:29 pm
Author: sinn
I write a number of IC posts on my guild forums... I hope DMs enjoy those even if the rest of the people that are not part of the guild do not.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:40 pm
Author: loki70
It's very much a case of disclosure. It's been hashed over the boards an uncountable number of times. The DM goes through a lot of work to set everything up, gets the plot set up, gets stuff on the pallet, and gets everything going at a good click, then a guild steps in, gathers some information, runs with it, and drops it as soon as the next shiney toy comes along. Or they get caught up in RL. And in the meantime a plot that could easily be resolved by anyone is dead due to lack of activity of the people that decided it was a guild plot...

Seriously, I think it's one of the saddest things about this place. People need to understand that not every plot, actually a very small portion of them, are guild plots. A vast, and I do mean VAST majority of plots are public. But the lack of info being distributed turns them into guild plots, where they fester and die.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:33 pm
Author: Belasco
Lucien wrote:It's worth pointing out that IC posts don't need to be objective, accurate, or even remotely true. Just IC.


Exactly!

It's your PC's perspective, nothing else really matters :D

There's one other nifty side effect to IC posts I neglected to mention... It's not uncommon for DMs to give tid bits of information to different groups, pieces of a puzzle so to speak, if there isn't communication about that the puzzle never gets put together or the DM is put in the position of having to narrow the scope of people involved.

Also, guild stuff doesn't need to be public... we can see everything :twisted: and if there is something with secrets about it, or your PC feels is private then don't post about it. This isn't a black and white thing, it's all about your PC, your perspective, your judgment, and the time you either have to put into it or feel like putting into it.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:39 pm
Author: Marleh
This thread is devolving into how a plot should be handled, so I'll help it on a bit.

When I see inactivity on a plot I'm involved in, it almost always comes down to miscommunication, which leads to the lack of communication.

A post or a PM gets missed, or doesn't contain the right questions, or who knows what. Then the DM is waiting for a response that the player thought had been delivered. Then the player, never getting an answer, shrugs and wonders if the plot is dead. The DM in the meantime wonders why the players aren't excited about this plot. The players have been told to wait two weeks or so before asking the DM again, so in the meantime they ask round and are told (by some third party who they trust, but who really doesn't know) that the DM is (a) swamped with work (b) swamped with school (c) dying in a hospital, and will get back to the players when they can.

The players (a) chew fingernails (b) hold candlelight vigils, and continue to wait.

Meanwhile the DM (who is not Mark Oban,) may have been in the hospital for a weekend for something, but that was now two weeks ago, he's fine and dandy, but apparently no one is interested in his plot.

Plot dies.

Its incredibly frustrating for both sides, but I've seen this happen so many times over the years I now accept it as a matter of course. :?

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:18 am
Author: Urizen
As a player, I like reading IC posts also---not just from player characters, but NPCs as well. They make me want to play more. They give me something to talk to people about in-game. I like reading about new lore and new people in the world. I also like actually logging in and playing when I can. So a big thanks to all of you that take the time to keep the IC world rolling. Yes, I have started drinking for New Years already.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:37 am
Author: mhogar
Brayon wrote:Lastly, as I stated in other posts about this topic:

GUILDS NEED TO BE MORE PUBLIC!!!


The "oh its secret stuff," really grinds my gears! (must admit I am horrible about this too in the guilds my PC is involved in.) As a challenge to Guild Leaders, start making public posts about what is going on. I see no reason why if a Guild is doing something that the public can see, that it is not posted publicly. Extra Cookies in it too.


I have a question about this:

Why would I as goodie want to post something at all, that can lead to that badies know about it and screw it up? I may as will give up playing a goodie.
In my opinion secrecy is needed in the battle between good and evil. And I see no way out of this.

Its even worse these day that you can't trust your own members and do most things in PMs.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:55 am
Author: Ninjar
This could be said of evil characters and deeds as well, but I generally think there's some way to post something up about it, even if it isn't at all reputable.

BUT there is always some way around it. Rescuing a Succubus for The'ton isn't quite smiled upon is society, but that's what the taverns are for. Who knows if you're making up stories or not!

viewtopic.php?p=1127910#p1127910 (P.S. TQ blew me away with this one. Thought it was just going to be another SAEV TEH GRL!! kind of thing)

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:10 am
Author: Belasco
To answer Mhogar's question:

Do what's IC :) I know that sounds almost overly simplistic, but really it makes a ton of difference. There's no reason to make posts that are contrary to what your PC feels would be in the best interest to their ends.

Guilds need to do the same. Some are naturally very secretive, others are more public. If a guild is involved in a DM plot and you want to know if it's ok to include others (guilds or individuals), just ask the DM. Sometimes we do run plots for one particular guild, other times we might be trying to bring multiple groups together.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

All in all, guys, rule zero! Really, not every DM interaction needs a write up. Not every major event needs one. Hell one could argue that none NEED one, but that it's certainly preferable for many to get an IC post.

My point in posting was merely to point out that IC posts seem to have declined a lot lately and it would be nice to see them pick up again. Nothing more or less :)

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:14 am
Author: spool32
Let's not get into a discussion about whether guilds post in public enough or not. Some guilds and PCs really do have excellent IC reasons for not telling the Nine and their neighbors what happened in the crypt last night, and we shouldn't bash them for it. Having said that:

I have run or assisted 4 events in the last week, affecting more than 30 distinct characters (some of whom refuse to join guilds for various IC and OOC reasons) and I have seen a total of 3 posts... both public AND private. We are here to help tell the stories... set the stage, present the challenges. You guys are the ones who really can make the world feel alive and active. Please do that!

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:19 am
Author: Cerridwyn
*cries at missing spools events* :wink:

Honestly, when I think about it and I'm comfortable with it--I make posts. Even those emote posts that people hate sometimes have a purpose for a DM. Who wants their PM box cluttered up with ~and i picked my nose today~, when you can just post it and a DM can choose to read it or not. If you're working with the DM in question--they'll know why you picked your nose and be happy you mentioned it.

As for the guild stuff, well if you're worried about secrecy post it on the guild boards. If there's a leak--you know where it came from and WOW a plot! Grab a DM to help ferret out the wrongdoer!

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:25 am
Author: Cougar
Question in regards to IC posts concerning events.

If the post is made from you log of said event. Can you quote the NPCs?

Granted the narrative will always be from the Character's point of view that is providing the information so interpretations can be made on what was said. But any quotes have to be what was actually said IG as I understand the rules. Or am I totally off base?

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:37 am
Author: IncogKnight
I, for one, consider myself duly admonished, and have now posted about every bit of plot I remember seeing IG. If it meets approval, will attempt to do so in future as well. :)

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:57 am
Author: Brayon
Cougar wrote:Question in regards to IC posts concerning events.

If the post is made from you log of said event. Can you quote the NPCs?

Granted the narrative will always be from the Character's point of view that is providing the information so interpretations can be made on what was said. But any quotes have to be what was actually said IG as I understand the rules. Or am I totally off base?


I see no probs with doing that, but I would run it by the DM who did the event first. Like a quick tell in game asking if it would be cool with them.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:15 am
Author: Belasco
The rule for speaking for NPCs generally says that you shouldn't put words in an NPC's mouth your PC didn't actually hear, and you shouldn't emote anything for an NPC that your PC didn't actually see.

Generally speaking if it happened in an event and you've got the log so you're certain of your quote, go for it :D If you want to add nuance or you're not positive about the quote run the post by the DM responsible, as Brayon said.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:41 pm
Author: Speedracer
Cerridwyn wrote:Even those emote posts that people hate sometimes have a purpose for a DM.


I was shocked to learn how offended some players get at so called "emote posts". I myself have stopped posting about my character's actions IG on open boards because of this. I have noticed this type of post has almost disapeared from the boards, perhaps this is part of the reason for IC post dropoff? Playing a Sereg'Wethrin there is virtually nothing my character knows about that can be posted on open boards, and with the hatred some players have for action posts I have simply stopped making IC posts on the open boards entirely. All my IC posts go on private boards where the correct players and DMs can see them, and players who are easily offended cannot.

It's simply more important to me as a player to get along with my fellow Avlisians than it is to make IC posts.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:57 pm
Author: l1t3r
My apologies to the Ebony, I have been very relaxed in my postings on various things. That will change :)

l1t3r


As far as emote posts go, I like them if they tell a good story. If it's some dude running to a house only to emerge again a short time after and then head south, you're not telling me anything. And I almost consider those a waste of time for most people.

Re: Posting = good

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:28 pm
Author: PlasmaJohn
Speedracer wrote:
Cerridwyn wrote:Even those emote posts that people hate sometimes have a purpose for a DM.


I was shocked to learn how offended some players get at so called "emote posts". I myself have stopped posting about my character's actions IG on open boards because of this.

If you're doing something observable, then by all means post publically. What people object to are the posts that they cannot react to especially if the post is about the character's direct thoughts. There is no telepathy on Avlis, at least not without DM assistance.

Even more annoying are the posts where the poster claims to be perfectly unobservable. If you must post such drivel, then please run it past a DM first.