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Stoneskin not stacking?

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Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Levis Pie » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:40 pm

anyone know if there's a problem with stoneskin not stacking with battle bands/epic DR/Dwarven Defender DR?

either the umber hulks i was fighting had +5 fists, or it was just ignoring my stoneskin. my stoneskin has been running out due to duration, rather than just being beaten through which is kind of odd. been noticing this the last couple of days.

thanks in advance.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Grunt » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:45 pm

Levis Pie wrote:anyone know if there's a problem with stoneskin not stacking with battle bands/epic DR/Dwarven Defender DR?

either the umber hulks i was fighting had +5 fists, or it was just ignoring my stoneskin. my stoneskin has been running out due to duration, rather than just being beaten through which is kind of odd. been noticing this the last couple of days.

thanks in advance.


It's more that the damage may not be enough to hit the stoneskin after going through the 10/- from battle bands, 9/- (if you have all 3) epic DR, and whatever your Defender DR is. It layers kind of oddly, but in your case it may be the last damage barrier. Were you taking any physical damage?
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Pathos Street » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:00 pm

It's entirely possible the umber hulks had +5 fists. Natural armor counts as + enchantment for piercing damage reduction when using natural weapons, at least in PnP. I think that the natural weapons have to be made separately in the toolset, but it's still entirely possible that +5 or better fists was what you were fighting.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: lloydy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:31 pm

I thought stone skin was +3 and premonition was +5

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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:45 pm

lloydy wrote:I thought stone skin was +3 and premonition was +5


All +5
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Sathsarrion » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:33 pm

Darkfire wrote:All +5

No, Lloydy is right, Unless Avlis spellhooking has changed it. But there is also greater stoneskin at +5
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: wolfwielder » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:35 pm

Anyone look on the wiki?

They are all +5/DRx, with x being what you see below. Each one absorbs 10 points of damage till a certain limit is it. Max of 100 except for Greater Stoneskin which is 150

Premonition
This grants him damage reduction 30/+5, and absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level before collapsing.

Stoneskin
The subject gains damage reduction 10/+5. (It ignores the first 10 points of damage each time it takes damage, though a weapon with a +5 enhancement bonus or any magical attack bypasses the reduction.) Once the spell has prevented a total of 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 100 points), it is discharged.

Greater Stoneskin
Grants the caster a damage reduction of 20/+5. The spell absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level, to a maximum of 150, before fading.

It sounds like the stoneskin is being used first instead of your DR Feats, Battlebands and Defender DR.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Levis Pie » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:19 am

combat info showed up as follows:

Umber Hulk: damages Ulfeit Rumnaheim 9 (9 physical)
Damage Reduction absorbs 10 damage - (ie Battle Bands)
Damage Reduction absorbs 15 damage - (ie DD DR + Epic DR)


should have been another DR of 10, after the dddr and epic. which lead me to the +5 fist conclusion. if that's the case i'm fine with it, i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bug or a known issue that they didn't stack together with the feats or whatnot.
also, DR from defender is 9, and 6 from the two epic DRs i have.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Gairus » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:52 am

As an aside, you may be thinking of shadow shield (+3/10) for the easier to pierce one.

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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Cromagnon » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:26 pm

Were these the nasty umber hulks that knock you down and have a petrification gaze? If so, I can believe they have +5 fists.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Adm.Venge » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:01 pm

Levis Pie wrote:anyone know if there's a problem with stoneskin not stacking with battle bands/epic DR/Dwarven Defender DR?

either the umber hulks i was fighting had +5 fists, or it was just ignoring my stoneskin. my stoneskin has been running out due to duration, rather than just being beaten through which is kind of odd. been noticing this the last couple of days.

thanks in advance.

For the longest time, there were notes on the NWN wiki about how the Stoneskin spells would not stack with Epic Damage Reduction, even though they are two seperate types of damage reduction (3/-, 6/-, or 9/- vs 10/+5, 20/+5, or 30/+5). Have you done any independant testing to see if this is still the case?
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Levis Pie » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:41 pm

i'm fairly sure it doesn't work. the umbers weren't the only things to 'bypass' it. i haven't actually seen anything deal damage to my stoneskin since the original post
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: AandA » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:20 am

Levis Pie wrote:combat info showed up as follows:

Umber Hulk: damages Ulfeit Rumnaheim 9 (9 physical)
Damage Reduction absorbs 10 damage - (ie Battle Bands)
Damage Reduction absorbs 15 damage - (ie DD DR + Epic DR)


should have been another DR of 10, after the dddr and epic. which lead me to the +5 fist conclusion. if that's the case i'm fine with it, i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a bug or a known issue that they didn't stack together with the feats or whatnot.
also, DR from defender is 9, and 6 from the two epic DRs i have.

Battle bands are damage RESISTANCE, by the way. That stacks with damage REDUCTION. Epic DR is REDUCTION. Stoneskin is damage REDUCTION. You apparently already have > 10 points of damage REDUCTION from your feats and class features so.... stoneskin is no go for vu. Sorry!

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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Levis Pie » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:40 am

AandA wrote:Battle bands are damage RESISTANCE, by the way.


thought reduction was x/- and resistance was a percentage. meh, either way i got it sorted.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: lloydy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:24 am

There are 3 types that decrease damage you take

Damage immunity eg 5% immunity to slashing

this is a percentage and comes of the damage first ( i think these sources stack but i am not sure)

Damage reduction eg 10/- slashing

feats, battle bands, barbs and dwarf defenders natural
all sources of these stack and come off the damage second

Damage resistance eg 20/+1

are spells such as stone skin premo shadow shield and the monk 20/+1 etc
these do not stack with each other the best one is used and come off the damage third

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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Sathsarrion » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:38 am

lloydy wrote:Damage reduction eg 10/- slashing

feats, battle bands, barbs and dwarf defenders natural
all sources of these stack and come off the damage second

These don't all fully stack. The feats and class abilities do as far as I know, but I'm pretty sure multiple items won't stack with each other
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Moredo » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:55 am

The items are x/-, the feats are x/+20.

As far as I know, the reduction spells and feats don't stack.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Ringwraith » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:12 pm

Sathsarrion wrote:
lloydy wrote:Damage reduction eg 10/- slashing

feats, battle bands, barbs and dwarf defenders natural
all sources of these stack and come off the damage second

These don't all fully stack. The feats and class abilities do as far as I know, but I'm pretty sure multiple items won't stack with each other

Multiple items giving the same type of resistance don't stack, but everything else will.
I've messed around with it before, created a DD that took no physical damage from attacks unless they were crits, (then he had a tendency to die due to rolling 1 on the save vs Dev crit, making a crit immune item solved that). :D
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Adm.Venge » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:24 am

Moredo wrote:The items are x/-, the feats are x/+20.

As far as I know, the reduction spells and feats don't stack.

This is not correct. No matter how high your Enhancement bonus, you will always subtract the listed number if you have a Damage Reduction ability. The Feats are x/-.

Dwarven Defender Damage Reduction, Barbarian Damage Reduction, Epic Barbarian Damage Reduction and Epic Damage Reduction Feats all stack. A Level 38 Barbarian has 10/-. With all three Epic Feats, it would be 19/-. This also stacks with your best physical damage reduction item(s) for each damage type (your highest Slashing, Piercing and Bludgeoning DR). If this same barbarian wore Battlebands, he would stop 29 points of physical damage from every hit.

If I understand what the wiki said before, you get the higher damage reduction from spells or feats. So, if you have 6/- from abilities or Feats and a Stonskin spell (10/+5 for up to 100 damage), your Stoneskin would stop 10 per attack until it wore off and then you would ignore 6 per attack from then on. If you have a higher innate damage reduction than Stoneskin provides (such as the Barbarian with 19/- DR), you get no benefit from Stoneskin at all.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: AandA » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:27 am

Adm.Venge wrote:
Moredo wrote:The items are x/-, the feats are x/+20.

As far as I know, the reduction spells and feats don't stack.

This is not correct. No matter how high your Enhancement bonus, you will always subtract the listed number if you have a Damage Reduction ability. The Feats are x/-.

Dwarven Defender Damage Reduction, Barbarian Damage Reduction, Epic Barbarian Damage Reduction and Epic Damage Reduction Feats all stack. A Level 38 Barbarian has 10/-. With all three Epic Feats, it would be 19/-. This also stacks with your best physical damage reduction item(s) for each damage type (your highest Slashing, Piercing and Bludgeoning DR). If this same barbarian wore Battlebands, he would stop 29 points of physical damage from every hit.

If I understand what the wiki said before, you get the higher damage reduction from spells or feats. So, if you have 6/- from abilities or Feats and a Stonskin spell (10/+5 for up to 100 damage), your Stoneskin would stop 10 per attack until it wore off and then you would ignore 6 per attack from then on. If you have a higher innate damage reduction than Stoneskin provides (such as the Barbarian with 19/- DR), you get no benefit from Stoneskin at all.


All correct except that battle bands aren't damage reduction, they're resistance, and THAT is why (I think) they stack. And I have a Monk/Sorcerer that has a high con with 2 epic DR feats (6/- right now) and that's exactly how the stoneskin and innate DR work. Stoneskin's 10/+5 is used up until it wears off and then you're left with the 6/-.
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Adm.Venge » Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:01 pm

AandA wrote:All correct except that battle bands aren't damage reduction, they're resistance, and THAT is why (I think) they stack. And I have a Monk/Sorcerer that has a high con with 2 epic DR feats (6/- right now) and that's exactly how the stoneskin and innate DR work. Stoneskin's 10/+5 is used up until it wears off and then you're left with the 6/-.

Well, if you are going to nitpick...

If you take Epic Energy Resistance Acid I and wear an amulet of 10/- Acid, you stop a total of 20 Acid damage per attack. Both are the same type of damage reduction/resistance, whatever the correct phrase is. Your Feats and abilities stack with your best gear in any case. :lol:
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: AandA » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:37 am

Hey, we're talking physical damage! :)

Energy resistances...stacking.... *shrugs* Sure, sounds good!
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Eklektikos » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:55 pm

Adm.Venge wrote:If you take Epic Energy Resistance Acid I and wear an amulet of 10/- Acid, you stop a total of 20 Acid damage per attack. Both are the same type of damage reduction/resistance, whatever the correct phrase is.

Nope. My old PC Eldrea used to have Epic Energy Resistance Acid I and a 10/Acid item and, while those two stacked, the feat did not stack with her Energy Buffer spell. This rather suggests that the item was offering damage resistance while the feat was offering damage reduction (as was the spell). :)
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: nwmblondy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm

Stoneskin is damage reduction

Dwarven Defender, Barbarian and Epic Barb and Epic Feats Damage Reduction I II III are also Damage Reducation.

Said here

nwnwikia wrote:Damage reduction represents a creature's ability to ignore a certain amount of physical damage from a single hit.

When damage reduction is expressed in the form "20/+3" or "+3 soak 20 damage", this indicates the amount of damage ignored (20) and the power of the weapon needed to penetrate the effect (+3). Thus a creature with 20/+3 damage reduction ignores the first 20 points of damage from any weapon that does not have an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater.

Another type of damage reduction is expressed as 20/-. The '-' means that all enchantments are affected. Even with a +20 weapon, the first 20 points of damage are ignored.

Non-physical damage, such as from elemental or magical attacks, is unaffected by damage reduction.

Damage reduction is an ability of the barbarian, monk and dwarven defender classes, and some feats and spells provide it as well. Some druid/shifter forms also include the effect.


Now Barb and D.D and Epic stacks, why is this?

nwnwikia wrote: * Damage reduction does not stack with itself. The only exceptions to this are

1. the barbarian-, dwarven defender- and epic- damage reduction feats (i.e. the sources of x/- damage reduction) stacking with each other and
2. the perfect self and epic damage reduction feats stacking with each other.


Stoneskin uses +5/10 soak, as your stackable damage reduction is higher than 10 (in this case yoru D.D bonus plus yoru epic feats equals 15) that wins, making stoneskin a waste o ftime. If you had something with +3/20 soak, I beleive that would take priority due to 15 being higher than 20. (Figured that bit out by myself)

Damage Reduction stacks with resistance, we have pretty much figured that out, so battle bands will stack with any of the above.

As for Ekl's case, I beleive what you have there is Acid resitance on the spell and acid resistance on the item, hence they dotn stack. In fact I checked an dit woudl seem Im right, go me. :P
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Re: Stoneskin not stacking?

PostAuthor: Adm.Venge » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:16 pm

nwmblondy wrote:As for Ekl's case, I beleive what you have there is Acid resitance on the spell and acid resistance on the item, hence they dotn stack. In fact I checked an dit woudl seem Im right, go me. :P

Eklektikos wrote:Nope. My old PC Eldrea used to have Epic Energy Resistance Acid I and a 10/Acid item and, while those two stacked, the feat did not stack with her Energy Buffer spell. This rather suggests that the item was offering damage resistance while the feat was offering damage reduction (as was the spell). :)

She said the Feat and the spell did not stack, not that the spell and the item did not stack.

I cant help but think that there are just exceptions to every damn damage reduction/resistance "rule" and you just have to learn how it works.
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