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A couple of questions

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A couple of questions

PostAuthor: Ahnieh Uth Ehatuin » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:27 am

I was told to post here so here goes:

1. Is the druid's immunity to web and similar effects broken or removed? Spiders still use successful web attacks against me. I forget the druid feat Something Step that allows for this immunity.

2. Just leveled to 12. Got a 5/6 Druid/Sorceror trying to make it 6/6 but the Druid class is suddenly not available to choose from. Charisma and Wisdom are both at 16 and there is not an alignment issue. Any ideas why I can take a level in every class but Druid?

3. Could you all give some thought to removing Lesser Amulets of Health (or anything that confers 100% immunity as an item) from the game in their current form. Immunity from Poison and Disease is an imbalance to the game. There are quite a few spells, feats, monsters that this item renders useless. Instead of complete immunity it ought to confer a +5 or +10 to Fortitude saves. Then it would comply with the spirit of the item. As it stands now, I have no fear of many creatures that use this as a primary attack. There is nothing that prevents heavy farming of xp down at the Roots of Le'Or per say. I use to fear those encounters...

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Re: A couple of questions

PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:34 am

Ahnieh Uth Ehatuin wrote:I was told to post here so here goes:

1. Is the druid's immunity to web and similar effects broken or removed? Spiders still use successful web attacks against me. I forget the druid feat Something Step that allows for this immunity.

2. Just leveled to 12. Got a 5/6 Druid/Sorceror trying to make it 6/6 but the Druid class is suddenly not available to choose from. Charisma and Wisdom are both at 16 and there is not an alignment issue. Any ideas why I can take a level in every class but Druid?

3. Could you all give some thought to removing Lesser Amulets of Health (or anything that confers 100% immunity as an item) from the game in their current form. Immunity from Poison and Disease is an imbalance to the game. There are quite a few spells, feats, monsters that this item renders useless. Instead of complete immunity it ought to confer a +5 or +10 to Fortitude saves. Then it would comply with the spirit of the item. As it stands now, I have no fear of many creatures that use this as a primary attack. There is nothing that prevents heavy farming of xp down at the Roots of Le'Or per say. I use to fear those encounters...

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1) Druids shouldn't be immune to web effects.

2) Probably a bug, unless you have no specified diety or something like that and Avlis requires you to have one to level (which, as far as I know, it doesn't, but I may be wrong)

3) Lesser Amulets of Health give immunity to disease I believe. I am not sure if they are still sold or supposed to be sold, as I'm pretty sure immunity items are banned CoPaP loot, meaning that they are supposed to be only very rarely given out as quest rewards and never supposed to be sold in stores. Not sure if this is true or not, but I think that's the way the charter works.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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Re: A couple of questions

PostAuthor: Kreetogg » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:11 am

Ahnieh Uth Ehatuin wrote:3. Could you all give some thought to removing Lesser Amulets of Health (or anything that confers 100% immunity as an item) from the game in their current form. Immunity from Poison and Disease is an imbalance to the game. There are quite a few spells, feats, monsters that this item renders useless. Instead of complete immunity it ought to confer a +5 or +10 to Fortitude saves. Then it would comply with the spirit of the item. As it stands now, I have no fear of many creatures that use this as a primary attack. There is nothing that prevents heavy farming of xp down at the Roots of Le'Or per say. I use to fear those encounters...


This is more of an issue that should be solved (if it is to be solved) by tweaking monster spawns. Immunity is great and so long as the items are thoughtfully crafted no one will be immune to everything without taking some sort of hit elsewhere.

If there is any area where you only need to defend yourself from only one type of attack and you can use an item to "unbalence" things in your favor, its an area and spawn design issue. I can't say for sure since I've never been to the place you mention. However, considering all of the RPG and/or fantasy games I've design and/or played that have problems like that, I can say fixes are local and trivial. A global change (such as changing the items) runs the risk of throwing everything else off.

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PostAuthor: Nob » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:17 am

Given the number of sereg attacks being on the up and up, I don't think we'll see removal of lesser ammies of health anytime soon.(Though, at one point the Sereg actually started collecting them from dead players)

The nastiness known as Spite make these small amulets absolutely essential.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:49 am

Bah. They're not essential at all. Its easy to craft the cure now, and there's another cure to be had as well.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
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PostAuthor: Diamond » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:20 am

Titanium Dragon wrote:Bah. They're not essential at all. Its easy to craft the cure now, and there's another cure to be had as well.


You mean if you play during times when there are lots of folks on the server. I doubt you would have much success finding a cure when there's only 2-3 people on.

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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:22 am

You can get the old cure without any other players on at all, without any knowledge of crafting. If you wished for the new cure, you could acquire some in advance or write a desperate letter.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
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PostAuthor: Diamond » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:38 am

Titanium Dragon wrote:You can get the old cure without any other players on at all, without any knowledge of crafting. If you wished for the new cure, you could acquire some in advance or write a desperate letter.


Writing letters does no good when you can't sign on at the same times as the bulk of players.. ya still have to meet the character with the cure to get the cure. And not everyone is an alchemist or knows a character who is an alchemist.

Besides, there are other reasons to have an amulet of health, RP-wise. Pussycat doesn't go to "work" without it, irregardless of the sereg and the spite.

edit: besides, I've heard the "new cure" is as dangerous as the spite for those with elven blood.

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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:47 am

Yes, but there are reasons, CoPaP-wise, why it shouldn't be sold. This is way off topic though; lets argue about it in a different thread and leave the newbie in peace.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
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PostAuthor: Shilkanni » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:52 am

As for his first question, you were a little dismissive.

Admittedly, From the 3.0 SRD (it is the same in 3.5)

"Woodland Stride: Starting at 2nd level, a druid may move through natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain at his or her normal speed and without suffering damage or other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect the druid. "

However, in game for NWN, and I believe in the manual, I believe it reads more like this:

"Woodland Stride
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Druid level 2.
Specifics: Immune to the Grease, Web, and Entangle spells.
Use: Automatic.
"

I know it's a far cry from the PnP version, but it does work this way in other Modules of NWN. Perhaps this ability is changed in Avlis.

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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:53 am

Perhaps they changed it, like so many things, to be more like it is in PnP. I do not know though. Perhaps it is a bug.
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PostAuthor: Diamond » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:12 am

Titanium Dragon wrote:Yes, but there are reasons, CoPaP-wise, why it shouldn't be sold. .


Anywho, Ahnieh, there's a thread somewhere that I'm too lazy to search for right now that says that items that grant certain immunities will be phased out through attrition, not through mass phaseout. I don't recall lesser amulets of health being on that list though. Hope this helps a little.

edit, here's the "banned" list from the CoPap Website Ahnieh, in case you're curious...

Immune knockdown
Immune mind affecting
Immune spell school
Immune specific spell
Perma Haste
Immune spell by level
Immune Critical Hit
Immune Sneak Attack
Immune Death Magic
Some of the On Hit effects (dispels, vorpal and the slays in particular)
Cast Spell of a spell level higher than 4
Damage Resistance of greater than 15
Improved Evasion
True Seeing
Items with FR description (unless you run a FR world)

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PostAuthor: Brock Fanning » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:31 pm

So the question to the team is then: why didn't poison make it onto that list? What about disease?

(EDIT: Regardless I think Ahnieh is right that this item should not be buy-able in its current form. I just went into the toolset and made an "Amulet of Good Health" that gives +5 to poison and disease saves. Funny thing is this costs 20k MORE than the immunity version... :roll: )
Last edited by Brock Fanning on Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostAuthor: FunkOdyssey » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:45 pm

Because its not a powerful or unbalancing immunity... having to occupy your amulet slot with a lesser amulet of health is a disadvantage most of the time.
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PostAuthor: Vichan Lyonsen » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:56 pm

Brock Fanning wrote:So the question to the team is then: why didn't poison make it onto that list? What about disease?



There are classes that have immunity to disease built in, i think from that we can presume that immunity to what amounts to a temporary condition, and apart from the spite, one that isnt very debilitating.

Poison is also an infrequent attack and as such an amulet that offers immunity to that would be uselessly filling a slot most of the time. A Lesser ammy of health doesnt bother me....

I have no answer to the druid issue, the NWN manual states specificly that immunity to web is part and parcel of druid.. however that also goes against the "Immunity to a specific spell" part of the banned list..I dont know if the feat has been nerfed or not.
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PostAuthor: CPU » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:29 pm

Woodland Stride: (Level 2) Druids are not affected by Grease, Web, and Entangle spells and effects.

So... I dunno... there have been some changes recently to a 2Da file regarding Druids that has been causing problems with leveling up, maybe this is related?
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PostAuthor: Quiz001 » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:46 pm

Have to agree with Funk - the poison/disease immunity is just one of those 'nice to have' things, but it's hardly imbalancing. My chars all take on spiders in an 'up close and personal' fashion, and to be honest, when they get poisoned/diseased, I don't even do anything about it until after the fight, unless it's a really debilitating roll, for which a chug on a restoration potion is the most that's required. I wouldn't exchange my amulet of protection for just those immunities. I know they also protect from the worse sorts of disease, but given that such encounters are rare, it's just not worth the amulet slot IMHO.
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PostAuthor: Jordicus » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:49 pm

CPU wrote:Woodland Stride: (Level 2) Druids are not affected by Grease, Web, and Entangle spells and effects.

So... I dunno... there have been some changes recently to a 2Da file regarding Druids that has been causing problems with leveling up, maybe this is related?


no, this has been a bug from a while ago that has not been tracked down yet. hopefully it's something we can fix.
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PostAuthor: Malathyre » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:53 pm

What web effect are we talking about here? There's two kinds that I have seen:

1) The kind that covers the ground and is an area effect type spell, that slows a character's movement speed. My druid moves through this with ease, thanks to Woodland Stride, presumably.

2) The kind that ettercaps and some spiders (I think) shoot at a single character. This spell has a visible effect of a small web at the feet of a single character and holds a character in place so they cannot move, but they can still used a ranged weapon, cast a spell, or even swing at an enemy in melee if the enemy is close enough. My druid has NEVER been immune to these types of spells, not since I started playing.

I have experienced both of these previous to HotU, and last night I saw both of these as well in the spider caves in Elysia. Both seem to be working just as they had before HotU. I'm not saying that one or more of these effects is or is not bugged, I don't know how they are "supposed to work", all I am saying is it appears to be the same for me as it always has been.
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PostAuthor: Ahnieh Uth Ehatuin » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:13 am

In response to some of the above opinions I think items that give +5 on up to Fortitude make better in-game sense. It might not make a difference out there for some of you with the way your characters are geared but think on this. In the interest of player character diversity it would be nice if people had to consider the following:

1. Feats that allow for resistance or immunity to disease, poison or fortitude saves versus just saying I'll get an item

2. Make the higher level Druid class ability of poison immunity mean something since an item should not duplicate this for 5k (the rate you can buy it at in Mikona). Especially since some of their other class abilities are bugged and not working...

3. Why role play an assassin and make poisons when there is alot of immunity out there? A bonus to Fortitude item would encourage people to make a deadlier poison (or make poison at all).

4. Make Druids actually memorize neutralize poison, disease, etc. since they would be valuable.

5. Keep the merchants happy..never know might drive another aspect of the player economy if there were a demand for cheaper cure poison potions instead of NPC merchants.

6. Lastly, there should be fear going into a spiders nest or area for example. Those of you with 20 ST and 20 CON won't care but say a small 8 ST, 10 CON ghost elf might really care...Those areas should be fear envoking. It should not cross a player's mind, "Hmmm...going do spiders today...where is that invulnerable item at so I can rake in the xp...."

Just my two cents,

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PostAuthor: keikobad » Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:01 am

FunkOdyssey wrote:Because its not a powerful or unbalancing immunity... having to occupy your amulet slot with a lesser amulet of health is a disadvantage most of the time.


The point is you don't have to occupy your amulet slot with it most of the time. You save it for when you meet spiders, put it on (not as cheesy as switching belts, but just as easy) and, presto, who cares about spiders, vrocks, mummies, etc...

Since the Spite is so debilitating, the amulet feels very necessary in Avlis-- or Mikona at least-- else many of us would spend a lot of our time RPing the effects of the disease. I'm still amazed at how many veterans get sick from the Spite after a Sereg strike, though. Clearly, owning the amulet does not equal instant use, but not all Sereg encounters are planned. I imagine crafters and adventurers planning trips to spider or mummy areas would prepare ahead.

It does seem odd to restrict items that give immunity to a specific spell, but allow blanket immunities to a type of attack which includes many spells and creature attacks. The assasin class gets a lot of bonuses to their save vs poison, plus the ability to coat their weapon with poison without a chance of poisoning themselves. Helpful qualities if you spend a lot of your time hunting poisonous creatures to gather their poison and use it yourself; but a regular rogue with this amulet comes out ahead, getting immunity to disease too.
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