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question about killing creatures

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question about killing creatures

PostAuthor: sarek88 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:08 am

Before I start this post I just want to say that I am not a powergamer. I am not asking a question about xp because I want to be level 20 in one week or anything like that. I am just asking about something I have noticed. OK, now that is out of the way and here it goes:

Is it just me, or is experience a bit strange in places? I mean, why is it that I get more experience from killing a weakling rat than I do for killing (just barely survived) a crag cat in the T'Nanshi forest? Shouldn't it make sense that the tough encounters give more experience? :?:

Can someone from the team give me some input on this?
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PostAuthor: Jordicus » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:11 am

we are in the process of updating the XP scripts on the servers. So far, Le'Or, Elysia & Ferrell have the new XP scripts functioning. the others will soon follow.
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PostAuthor: 4x4_Ender » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:20 am

Ive noticed this in places where the XP code has even been replaced though. Vampires (moderate rated) in the FoM for a lvl 11 character (no multiclass penalty) only give me like 8-11 xp. I get that much for killing ettercaps in Mikona. This is a bit too low IMO for the risk of fighting them.

Just thought i would give my imput.
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PostAuthor: Liartes » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:07 am

4x4_Ender wrote:Ive noticed this in places where the XP code has even been replaced though. Vampires (moderate rated) in the FoM for a lvl 11 character (no multiclass penalty) only give me like 8-11 xp. I get that much for killing ettercaps in Mikona. This is a bit too low IMO for the risk of fighting them.

Just thought i would give my imput.


I second that opinion.
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PostAuthor: Deider » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:19 am

Part of it is due to the CR rating of creatures. If you open the toolset and play around you'll notice that you can create two creatures with the same CR that are completely different in terms of difficulty. And since XP is calculated in part from the CR of the creature(s) you defeat...

Why is the CR calculation funny like that? I'm not sure. I'm not going to go so far as to say thet Bioware screwed it up, but... I think some things (such as equipment) are not factored in as much as they should be.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:28 am

The real problem is special abilities/feats. Ettercaps are weaklings, but because they can cast web are seen as nasty. Umberhulks are quite nasty with their confusion, but are only seen as a bit harder.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: Quiz001 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:49 am

Is it just me, or is experience a bit strange in places?



Pssst.... try killing the townspeople in Elysia, they give 500 xp each!!! And you never get into trouble for it! :wink:

....trust me.... I NEVER lie!


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PostAuthor: Strangg » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 pm

Bioware screwed up in making CR the basis for XP. CR is crap, and to top it all off they don't give the proper CR "bump" to creatures with special abilities. Take water elementals and their drown attack for instance. It is an insta-death effect yet it hardly adds anything to CR. Make a water elemental in the toolset take away its drown attack and then give it the ability to cast just 1 death spell a day like finger of death and watch the CR jump.



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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:27 pm

The main problem is, DnD offers no fixed formulas to calculate CR in the handbooks.. even as late as 3.5.

They descripe a solid testing process to get there, though.. but that process takes a bit long for a computer game. Thus they may have screwed it up with later additions like the drown attack (that's a SoU addition to the elementals)
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:04 pm

Strangg wrote:Bioware screwed up in making CR the basis for XP. CR is crap, and to top it all off they don't give the proper CR "bump" to creatures with special abilities. Take water elementals and their drown attack for instance. It is an insta-death effect yet it hardly adds anything to CR. Make a water elemental in the toolset take away its drown attack and then give it the ability to cast just 1 death spell a day like finger of death and watch the CR jump.



~S


The implementation of the drown ability was changed. Originally it only did d6 damage/round until you made a fort save. Now, its an instadeath fort save, and they never adjusted the CR for that.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: WrathOG777 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:17 pm

Starslayer_D wrote:The main problem is, DnD offers no fixed formulas to calculate CR in the handbooks.. even as late as 3.5.

They descripe a solid testing process to get there, though.. but that process takes a bit long for a computer game. Thus they may have screwed it up with later additions like the drown attack (that's a SoU addition to the elementals)


How long does it really take a computer to simulate two groups of NPCs fighting each other? They could of used the exact CR determining method run via NPC groups of characters vs the new instance of the monster simulation in seconds. Or real time for a developer to take over NPCs and make choices. Then simply let any developer override the CR with a new hand picked value.

Was probably more work to figure CR the way they did then to actualy do it right.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:34 pm

A monster should have a CR equal to the average level of a party of four characters necessary to kill it, but use up approximately 1/5th of their resources.

As an aside, the CR on ettercaps needs to be lowered. Those guys are wusses, and half the time won't even attack you. Makes gathering silk glands easy though...
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: 4x4_Ender » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:40 pm

Well, i think the XP system was adjusted to make it so its more rewarding to adventure in groups correct?? I havnt had a chance to test this but has this indeed been improved??

As far as the solo xp and water elementals or vampires not giving enough xp for the risk, well, these things just need to be tweeked a little once the general XP system has been perfected (to a certain degree at least). Some of the xp i get for certain monsters is very good, and for others like water elementals and vampires, its not quite relevant.

But if a bonus has been given for groups, then that is what really matters. Ive been waiting for that change since i started playing 9 months ago. :wink:
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