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Can something be done about Water Elements?

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Can something be done about Water Elements?

PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:27 pm

With their drown attack, these creatures are one of the most dangerous around (for anyone without immunity to death effects). Yet their CR seems low in comparison. I've no problem with their drown effect itself, but the monster needs to go up a few CR levls to compensate for this potentially lethal effect.

For example, in Ferrel I encountered a couple of Water Mephits. When I next visit there (a bit more experienced) it is suddenly spawning 1 or 2 Water Elementals! This indicates to me that the encounter scripts are regarding Water Elementals as just one step up from Water Mephits, which given the relative difficulty and lethalness of these two creatures - it is clearly not the case.

Can the elements be given a CR rating comensurate with their abilities.
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Re: Can something be done about Water Elements?

PostAuthor: Vanor » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:37 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:Can the elements be given a CR rating comensurate with their abilities.


I'll take a look at that tonight... I doubt the CR has been lowered by us, which means either Bioware didn't increase it when they added in the drown attack, or it's where it should be.
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PostAuthor: Jordicus » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:45 pm

they are the default as Bioware has them setup. that doesn't mean it's right. but to change them would mean having to reaplce all teh default water elementals with custom ones

that would mean the area managers would have to go through every mod and track down every occurance of the water elementals and replace them.

not saying it won't ever happen, but there is a lot of stuff that is higher priority unfortunately.
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PostAuthor: 4x4_Ender » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:48 pm

Not that there are that many on avlis anyways. I only know of a few spots off hand where they spawn: Slaver's Deep, Water Supply in Deglos, etc.

But, i agree with Dirk that the CR given to water elementals does not reflect their difficulty at all, especially for fighters who need to use melee to kill them.
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PostAuthor: Mistcaller » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:50 pm

There is a process going on of re-structuring and re-evaluation of custom NPCs and this request has been taken into account. But it takes time...
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PostAuthor: storminj » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:51 pm

They use to spawn in the mines of Mikona but they have dissapeared most likely to protect miners. I have been scared to fight these buggers because of this attack....scary.
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PostAuthor: Nob » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:52 pm

On the same subject, elder/huge water elementals don't give any xp last time I checked. Given how proposterously powerful these things are, that needs to be adjusted a little. Pretty please?
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PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:58 pm

Sure, I understand. Thanks for the quick responses. And I understand that there probably won't be a quick resolution to this - just stick it in the queue ;)

PS: All the development team do a fantastic job already, and I hate having to to ask for anything. I just feel so guilty that you guys spend so much time working on Avlis, that you don't get to spend as much time actually enjoying the fruits of you labours by playing there.
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PostAuthor: TheElvenKing » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:02 pm

Nob wrote:On the same subject, elder/huge water elementals don't give any xp last time I checked. Given how proposterously powerful these things are, that needs to be adjusted a little. Pretty please?


I remember the last time I fought one of these things. After about 500 damage done to it and it only being 'injured', I was beginning to wonder if the thing was bugged or what the hell was going on. I guess it could have been DM intervention, but since the server was dead and my tells asking whether this whole thing was bugged or possessed went unanswered, I highly doubt it. If there's one thing I've noticed over the last 9 months is that the Avlis team of DM's are HIGHLY responsive to player inquiries - a fact that is not lost on this player at all; you guys rock. 8)
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:02 pm

Dirk Cutlass wrote:PS: All the development team do a fantastic job already, and I hate having to to ask for anything. I just feel so guilty that you guys spend so much time working on Avlis, that you don't get to spend as much time actually enjoying the fruits of you labours by playing there.


Heh. I was online DMing for a few hours last night, and I felt guilty the whole time because I have so much work to do on Avlis projects. :P

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PostAuthor: Urizen » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:17 pm

Online DMing eh? Check the "Take the boat he says" in the M'Chek army forum for an amusing recount. Anyhow, I think this problem could easily be solved by making Tollgorath drop +5 swords of water elemental slaying :wink:
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PostAuthor: WrathOG777 » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:52 pm

Gnomish SCUBA mask

immunity spell: drown
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PostAuthor: Jordicus » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:53 pm

WrathOG777 wrote:Gnomish SCUBA mask

immunity spell: drown


LOL :lol:
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PostAuthor: Lafferty » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:01 pm

IMO, the drown attack gets really annoying with a summoned water elemental and a familiar around. The elemental often kills the familiar with the drown attack.
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PostAuthor: kombinat » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:33 pm

Lafferty wrote:The elemental often kills the familiar with the drown attack.


That's when it doesn't kill you at the same time :oops:
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Re: Can something be done about Water Elements?

PostAuthor: Strangg » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:29 pm

Vanor wrote:
Dirk Cutlass wrote:Can the elements be given a CR rating comensurate with their abilities.


I'll take a look at that tonight... I doubt the CR has been lowered by us, which means either Bioware didn't increase it when they added in the drown attack, or it's where it should be.


The drown attack is a bioware thing, water elementals dont' normally have it, and yes, their CR is WAY off because of it. Drown attack = Insta-death ability which means their CR should be much higher. However, Bioware doens't exactly calculate CR properly... They just need to have the effect removed that will fix them properly.



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PostAuthor: Mistcaller » Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:11 pm

Please check the usual place in Mikona and report here...
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PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:22 pm

Mistcaller wrote:Please check the usual place in Mikona and report here...


*scratches head* I didn't even know there were Water Elementals in Mikona ... how long have I been here? :lol:
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PostAuthor: KinX » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:24 am

Dirk Cutlass wrote:
Mistcaller wrote:Please check the usual place in Mikona and report here...


*scratches head* I didn't even know there were Water Elementals in Mikona ... how long have I been here? :lol:


There used to be some in the Mines, haven't been in there for a while so i'm not sure if they've been removed or are still there.
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:38 am

The Mikona Mine Water elementals are still around and deadly...
ashzz: at the very core of the problem is that good characters and organizations can do much more EVIL in the name of good than evil can do evil.
Daerthe: There is only room for so much realism before things start to get silly

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PostAuthor: Mistcaller » Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:32 am

Ok.. can someone tell me how much XP they give? I refer only to those in Mikona mines.
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:29 pm

I didn't check them.. my lvl 9 barbarian simply ran, as there were 6 of them.. (allthough the smallest ones)
ashzz: at the very core of the problem is that good characters and organizations can do much more EVIL in the name of good than evil can do evil.
Daerthe: There is only room for so much realism before things start to get silly

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PostAuthor: Sickocrow » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:39 pm

30 seconds from post time.

5 Huge water ellies destroyed

XP given 5,6,6,7 and 9

3 of them dropped loot; a poison scroll, a fire agate and a barkskin potion.

lv 22 character (Gunter Kilya)


Seocnd test an hour later yeilded similar results 5-9 XP

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PostAuthor: Cymbolism » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:06 pm

I summoned two of these back to back tonight in Elysia - about 1300GMT and the first killed my character, the second killed my familiar and dished out a nice 68 elemental damage to itself with drown.
Is that a one off bout of shitluck? or are these things bugged?
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PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:42 pm

Cymbolism wrote:I summoned two of these back to back tonight in Elysia - about 1300GMT and the first killed my character, the second killed my familiar and dished out a nice 68 elemental damage to itself with drown.
Is that a one off bout of shitluck? or are these things bugged?


I think you'll actually find that his how their attack works. Apparently they "split in two" and half of the water is use to drown you. This is why it "appeared" lose 68 hp... well that used to be the case unless that has changed too. Actually, thay can only "split in two" once, so if you survive the drown attack, it just goes down to a regular fight.
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