Server Totals
Ferrell - (1)
Le'Or - (1)
Elysia - (0)
Deglos - (0)
M'Chek - (0)
Mikona - (0)
Wilderness - (0)
Visimontium - (0)
Underdark - (0)
Total players: 2
Gallery
  • Third Imperium Arena Chronicle
    Album name: DM Events
    Uploaded by: Hamlet
    Uploaded: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:54 am

Links Menu

Suggestion: an event server?

Forum for posing direct questions to the Avlis Team. Purpose is to facilitate Team/Player communication.

Moderators: Nighthawk4, Dungeon Masters

Suggestion: an event server?

PostAuthor: sly_1 » Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:46 pm

Say, I know the worst thing about getting deep into a really intense dm event is when the realities of lag associated with playing a crpg get in the way of the rp and the adventure.

So here's an idea: Instead of adding a new part of Avlis when the next server becomes available, why not add an "event's server". When a dm is planning an event, he/she can fire up the events server, load the module the event will take place in, and then ask the pc's involved to log out of the normal avils servers and log into the events server.

This way, all the lag created by the dm client won't impact the other pc's not participating, and all the lag created by the pc's not in the event won't impact the dm quest. The only problem I could see with all this is that events of this sort might have to be limited to one part of avlis (i.e. the wilderness , mikona, elysia, etc.) unless the events server is macho enough to handle a couple instances of NWN so the dm could load a couple mods on one machine and the players could portal between them.

If it turned out to be a huge success, maybe more than one events server could be created. At the very least, it would make smaller, non-cross server events a lot smoother and reduce lag for all :)
I have the strength of a bear that has the strength of TWO bears!

sly_1
Prince of Bloated Discourse
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:21 am

PostAuthor: HarveyH » Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:59 pm

The event server would be doing nothing at eventless times; seems like a bit of a waste in my opinion.

It might also be a bit difficult to explain from a RP point of view.

A: "Where were you yesterday evening?"
B: "At the Mikona docks"
A: "I was there as well... why didn't I see you? Admit it, you were with that other woman again!"
B: "Nononono honey, I was participating in an event; you were not"
A: "So that's what you are calling it? An event? I'll show you an event!"
User avatar
HarveyH
Scholar
 
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Nijmegen

PostAuthor: kombinat » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:05 pm

It would make events disjointed from the whole persistent world philosophy, imho... I for one love the fact that occasionally I'll get to see a Balor chasing a halfling across a field, and have my own small part in the unfolding drama when I Haste the Balor..
And it also would lead to the confusion of:
"Elysia was burnt to the ground today, nothing but ashes remains"
"But I was in Elysia. Nothing happened. Was quiet. Had a spot of rain in the afternoon. Tupaia is having a baby, did you know? Fanos has developed hayfever, too"
Be mindful of the prayers you send
Pray hard but pray with care
For the tears that you are crying now
Are just your answered prayers

kombinat
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Sydney, Australia (GMT+10)
DM Avatar: Senath

PostAuthor: HarveyH » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:08 pm

:) exactly
User avatar
HarveyH
Scholar
 
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Nijmegen

PostAuthor: Themicles » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:09 pm

The majority of lag issues will be getting better over time. The Avlis team has been working on the known lag issues, and has been working hard at tracking down any unknown lag issues.

-Themicles
A wise man does not dwell on his past. He learns from it, he grows from it, and then moves ahead into his future.

And some wise words from a wise man. :P
Orleron wrote:You have to excuse Themi. Tact, diplomacy, and softness are not his best traits, but he does not mean anything by his writing. He's a nice guy. You just get used to it after a while because he doesn't seem to learn. :)
User avatar
Themicles
CoPaP Ambassador
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:45 pm
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI

PostAuthor: sly_1 » Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:46 pm

All good points I hadn't thought of...

Still, there are events that are intended to affect everyone who happens to be on at the time, and there are events that arent. For example, a balor attacking Elysia is one thing, but a band of adventurers entering a dungeoun, cave, remote area of the wilderness, crypt etc. somewhere to kill the bad guy at the end is a different matter.

If it's one of those "end of the quest" type quests were the adventurers are going to a remote, out of the way place, I think it'd be a lot better to have it take place on a seperate server. Anything that happens in a busy place like one of the cities should definitely take place on the "normal" servers.

But hey, either way, it's all good ;)
I have the strength of a bear that has the strength of TWO bears!

sly_1
Prince of Bloated Discourse
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:21 am

PostAuthor: KinX » Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:54 pm

kombinat wrote:It would make events disjointed from the whole persistent world philosophy, imho... I for one love the fact that occasionally I'll get to see a Balor chasing a halfling across a field, and have my own small part in the unfolding drama when I Haste the Balor..


LOL :D :P :D
Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

Image

This statement is false
User avatar
KinX
Elder Sage
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 2:53 pm
Timezone: GMT +1

PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:04 pm

Bah. That'd be silly and make no sense.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
User avatar
Titanium Dragon
Sage
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: Corvallis, OR (GMT - 7)

PostAuthor: Malathyre » Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:53 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:Bah. That'd be silly and make no sense.


Actually, no. Silly is bashing someone else's idea without offering any constructive feedback whatsoever.
"The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep!"--Your Horoscope for Today, Weird Al Yankovic
User avatar
Malathyre
Sage
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:47 pm
Location: Michigan, U.S.A. (GMT-5)

PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:48 pm

Well, I was worried my actual response (which I deniegned to post) would offend someone. So instead I posted that, and naturally offended someone.

The lag AFAIK is not an issue of "needing to be on a different machine". I think its an issue of Avlis's OnEnter scripts and OnSpawn scripts; however, some DMs seem not to cause any lag with their events at all, while others cause tons. I'm tempted to say that the issue will not even be helped by event servers. Moreover, an event server excludes others from entering the event, and makes for a totally unrealistic situation. Additionally the new server would be put to better use permanently hosting another module.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
User avatar
Titanium Dragon
Sage
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: Corvallis, OR (GMT - 7)

PostAuthor: Themicles » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:28 pm

/me sighs

The lag is not what you are assuming TD.
The OnEnter scripts didn't cause lag when we had no lag.

There are two things identified as the cause of the lag.
And both are being worked on.
While I wont talk about Avlis internal matters, I will say its prompted me to do some things on my own world.

I will tell you this though. On my world, the two biggest users of CPU are pathfinding calls that never time-out, and use more, and more CPU until it finally finds its way, and Jasperre's AI.

If the OnEnter scripts where an issue, believe me, we'd know (I use the same OnEnters). There is a profiler DLL for NWNX. It spits out a report of how many times certain scripts are called, and how long it took to execute.
It would've shown up in there as a problem.

-Themicles
A wise man does not dwell on his past. He learns from it, he grows from it, and then moves ahead into his future.

And some wise words from a wise man. :P
Orleron wrote:You have to excuse Themi. Tact, diplomacy, and softness are not his best traits, but he does not mean anything by his writing. He's a nice guy. You just get used to it after a while because he doesn't seem to learn. :)
User avatar
Themicles
CoPaP Ambassador
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:45 pm
Location: Wolverine Lake, MI

PostAuthor: Aloro » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:49 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:Well, I was worried my actual response (which I deniegned to post) would offend someone. So instead I posted that, and naturally offended someone.

The lag AFAIK is not an issue of "needing to be on a different machine". I think its an issue of Avlis's OnEnter scripts and OnSpawn scripts; however, some DMs seem not to cause any lag with their events at all, while others cause tons. I'm tempted to say that the issue will not even be helped by event servers. Moreover, an event server excludes others from entering the event, and makes for a totally unrealistic situation. Additionally the new server would be put to better use permanently hosting another module.


Lag on Avlis is caused by a lot of things. It is influenced by the speed of the CPU and number of free cycles available. It is influenced by the quality of the internet connection, and of the local network. It is influenced by the number of NPCs spawned, and how they act both when alone and when around PCs. It is influenced by the AI the NPCs use to make decisions.

We're reducing the number of static NPCs in some core areas of cities, and also fixing pathing problems that eat up CPU cycles.

We're in the middle of a major code shift right now - we're cleaning up all the OnEnter and OnSpawn scripts, along with a lot of other stuff. We're removing all of Jasperre's AI as part of this process. This is over halfway done now, and the results have been increased stability and less lag - Le'Or ran for 180 hours 22 minutes 27 seconds before I rebooted it yesterday.

We're looking into some hardware upgrades and network improvements.

New servers are coming later this year, but current development is focused on improving our existing 6 fabulous servers.

- Aloro
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote:The meaning of earthly existence lies, not as we have grown used to thinking, in prosperity, but in the development of the soul.
User avatar
Aloro
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 12810
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:11 am
Location: Rainbow's End

PostAuthor: sly_1 » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:03 am

Titanium Dragon wrote:Well, I was worried my actual response (which I deniegned to post) would offend someone. So instead I posted that, and naturally offended someone.


This entire thread is 100% non offensive to me, but then again, I have this funny thing about not taking internet forums related to a *game* that I play as a *hobby* very seriously. :P

Moreover, an event server excludes others from entering the event, and makes for a totally unrealistic situation. Additionally the new server would be put to better use permanently hosting another module.


Which is why, after others posted similar concerns, I suggested only using this hypothetical events server for situations where the event isn't going to occur in a public place. Obvious examples are when the bad guy's hideout is tracked down by 8 pc's in some cave out in the middle of nowhere. I just figured taking the dm(s) and the pc's off the main servers for something that isn't going to effect the community at large would help reduce lag.

I've discovered that even a perfectlyly scripted NWN PW will always have lag, thanks to the fact that NWN was never intended to function as a PW. I am merely trying to make suggestions to get around some of the limitations of NWN. I don't mean to harsh anyones mellow, bro ;)

Regardless, this idea doesn't seem to worthy, so I guess it's over and done with.



Game on.
I have the strength of a bear that has the strength of TWO bears!

sly_1
Prince of Bloated Discourse
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:21 am

PostAuthor: choraldances » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:54 am

Have no fear, Pap's working on it. :) End of story.
User avatar
choraldances
Uber Posting Whor3
 
Posts: 13707
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:36 pm
Location: Stuck in what feels like Arborea GMT -7

PostAuthor: Vergilius » Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:52 am

Actually one of the biggest sources of lag that I've found is something that can be 100% player controlled, well for Elysia at least. If the server has been up for multiple hours, Fanos has a way of accomulating a lot of different things. People sell him junk and he keeps on accumulating. There is a threshold, somewhere around 4 pages when buying/selling from his inventory creates an insane amount of lag. It always stops when you player X stops buying/selling. If people would spread out their stuff to the umpteenth 1000 other merchants that aren't much further away, it would go a long way to smoothing out Elysia. The same can be said for any other merchant that tends to collect a lot of things.

Vergilius
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 8270
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 2:37 am
Location: Austin Texas, again
Timezone: US Central

PostAuthor: Malathyre » Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:25 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:Well, I was worried my actual response (which I deniegned to post) would offend someone. So instead I posted that, and naturally offended someone.


You need to work a lot harder than that to offend me, TD, really. :wink: Just look at your first post, then look at your second post, and which one do you think actually adds something to the discussion here? No offense was taken, but if you thought it was a lousy idea, why post at all, and potentially make someone feel worse for having posted their thoughts in the first place? *shrugs*

Anyway, the issue of lag is a good one to discuss, and what Verg said is what I have been told generates lag quickly...if this were more public knowledge, or there were more trash cans around, maybe folks would be less inclined to sell their leftover crafting ingredients/other nearly worthless items. I don't know, just a thought.
"The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up, do a bunch of stuff, and then go back to sleep!"--Your Horoscope for Today, Weird Al Yankovic
User avatar
Malathyre
Sage
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:47 pm
Location: Michigan, U.S.A. (GMT-5)

PostAuthor: anticybr » Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:45 pm

Malathyre wrote:Anyway, the issue of lag is a good one to discuss, and what Verg said is what I have been told generates lag quickly...if this were more public knowledge, or there were more trash cans around, maybe folks would be less inclined to sell their leftover crafting ingredients/other nearly worthless items. I don't know, just a thought.


I've seen PWs where you could not sell items to any NPC except designated "pawn shop" type merchants. Also, there were scripts on these merchants that automatically emptied their inventories every couple of realtime hours. They had to make sure they had a "clean up" script running to catch all the junk that players dropped on the ground because they couldn't be bothered to lug it back to the pawn shop. Of course, if you had trash cans on every street corner, that'd help.

The HotU upgrades to the toolset also include the ability to custom tailor merchants buying/selling policies (which has been a long time coming). I don't know how much it affects/reduces lag (haven't gotten to the merchants on my world yet), but it does make for more realistic merchants.
There is no escape.

anticybr
Prince of Bloated Discourse
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:44 pm

PostAuthor: Dralix » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:17 pm

What, you don't think it's realistic for Fanos to buy grainshots by the hundreds? Or unconsious elven girls?

Dralix
Silver Contributor
 
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:08 pm
Location: FTP

PostAuthor: Vergilius » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:45 pm

Dralix wrote:What, you don't think it's realistic for Fanos to buy grainshots by the hundreds? Or unconsious elven girls?


not a question of realism, its a question of lag and promoting the greatest amount of fun for all involved.

Vergilius
Team Member; Retired with Honors
 
Posts: 8270
Joined: Sun May 04, 2003 2:37 am
Location: Austin Texas, again
Timezone: US Central

PostAuthor: NWDuneAuron » Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:49 pm

On a realism note, Fanos had sheets of copper and bronze when I last looked.

...What does an alchemist need with metal sheets? ;).
User avatar
NWDuneAuron
Sage
 
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 10:13 am
Location: Britain, GMT

PostAuthor: Dralix » Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:49 pm

Vergilius wrote:not a question of realism, its a question of lag and promoting the greatest amount of fun for all involved.


My response was not a matter of realism or lag, but sarcasm.

Dralix
Silver Contributor
 
Posts: 4764
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:08 pm
Location: FTP


Return to The Avlis Project: Ask the Team

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot]