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Team ruling on Greater Sanctuary

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Team ruling on Greater Sanctuary

PostAuthor: kombinat » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:31 am

We're all aware that Greater Sanctuary is quite broken, for example:
http://www.avlis.org/viewtopic.php?t=20243

Did some testing at around 0030 GMT 2004/02/17 on Deglos server, and GS was giving no effects at all wrt PCs as far as we could tell: could be seen, could be attacked by neutral and hostile PCs.

This is not meant to be a bug report. That bug report is locked, it's a Bioware bug, maybe it just might get fixed in 1.62/HotU, but I'm not holding my breath. So my question for the team is:

Can we have a ruling on how GS should be RPd? If someone has GS up should they be ignored as if undetectable?

If the Team wants to leave it up to players to decide based on circumstance, that's fine too.. perhaps a suggestion rather than a ruling, for anyone who is unsure. If someone casts GS and a DM-controlled NPC can still see them due to the bug, will the DM RP them disappearing? Or what?

Cheers,
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PostAuthor: FunkOdyssey » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:23 pm

You wouldnt be able to tell at a glance if the person was using greater sanctuary or not, because a cleric could be using regular sanctuary, or epic mage armor for a mage. All three spells use the same visual effect. An ioun stone, if those are introduced, also look the same when used.
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PostAuthor: keikobad » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:39 pm

I'm not even sure that other people can always see the visual effect. I've crossed transitions (during heavy load/lag) after casting GS and been told by people they couldn't see anything different about me, but who knows.

I have noticed GS works differently on different Avlis servers. This may be correctable. I'd suggest waiting until Avlis goes HotU to re-examine it.
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PostAuthor: kombinat » Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:50 pm

keikobad wrote:I have noticed GS works differently on different Avlis servers. This may be correctable. I'd suggest waiting until Avlis goes HotU to re-examine it.


Yep, not expecting anything to change technically as a result of this post. I just want to know how the Team views GS: Is it meant to work exactly as per the Spell description, or as per the PnP version, or how?
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PostAuthor: Deider » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:06 pm

Most spells in Avlis have been modified to more closely mimic their effects as described in 3E. It's safe to assume that Greater Sanctuary will be similarly modified once we go to HotU. Of course, this is coming from someone who won't be doing any spell-modifying whatsoever :)
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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:08 pm

Whatever the ruling, take into account that 90+% of the players won't know it's up, so don't except them to automatically be able to "cheese"the effect.

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PostAuthor: Scurvy_Platypus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:09 pm

Since most of the effects of spells are no longer visible, and I'm pretty sure that G.S is one of those I'd be inclined to say that the team won't be issuing a ruling. I could of course be in error. Another consideration, is the effect that this would have for everyone else not just the caster of the spell.

As a general stance, the team tends to dislike issueing "rulings" about things like this. Mainly because of the word... "ruleing". As in a rule. We like players to have as much freedom as possible in what they wish to do, subject to that freedom allowing for the maximum enjoyability of the maximum number of players.
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PostAuthor: kombinat » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:33 pm

Scurvy_Platypus wrote:Since most of the effects of spells are no longer visible, and I'm pretty sure that G.S is one of those I'd be inclined to say that the team won't be issuing a ruling. I could of course be in error. Another consideration, is the effect that this would have for everyone else not just the caster of the spell.


The effect is still visible, but appears the same as normal Sanctuary.

Scurvy_Platypus wrote:As a general stance, the team tends to dislike issueing "rulings" about things like this. Mainly because of the word... "ruleing". As in a rule. We like players to have as much freedom as possible in what they wish to do, subject to that freedom allowing for the maximum enjoyability of the maximum number of players.


Understood.. but how about a suggestion? :) I really don't know if it should be treated as "Super Invisibility" as the description suggests or not. Or should we just forget about this spell for now, not cheese anything, see if 1.62 brings it back?

I'd like to know how some of the DMs would react if someone cast GS in front of their NPC?
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PostAuthor: Vanor » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:38 pm

kombinat wrote:I really don't know if it should be treated as "Super Invisibility" as the description suggests or not.


We tend to strive toward being as much like 3e PnP as possible, when and where we can. We've changed things to become more in line with the writen rules. So idealy the spell Greater Sanc would be treated as the rules state.

Or should we just forget about this spell for now, not cheese anything, see if 1.62 brings it back?


However we will not sugest or require people cheese things. If we can't make it work right in game, without cheesing, then most likely we'll just not do much about it at all.

My sugestion, would be that people treat it however seems to make the most sense, depending on the situation. Oviouslly you won't know if someone is under the effects of GS unless you see the spell effect, or see someone cast it.

I'd like to know how some of the DMs would react if someone cast GS in front of their NPC?


I'd most likely act as if the spell worked as intended. But not every time, depending on what I felt created the situation I was looking for. :)

How's that for speaking a lot and not really saying a damn thing? ;)
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PostAuthor: kombinat » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:54 pm

Vanor wrote:However we will not sugest or require people cheese things. If we can't make it work right in game, without cheesing, then most likely we'll just not do much about it at all.


Sounds good.

Vanor wrote:I'd most likely act as if the spell worked as intended. But not every time, depending on what I felt created the situation I was looking for. :)

How's that for speaking a lot and not really saying a damn thing? ;)


Said exactly what I was after :) Thanks :)
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