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Character levels

PostAuthor: maelwydd » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:56 pm

Now that the new limit is level 40, some questions about the old limit.

How many chracters have made it to level 20 so far?

Who was the first to level 20 on Avlis?

Who has the most experiance on Avlis?
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:21 am

a lot

no idea, before my time (Oct 2002)

By levels visible (haven't seen any 1%ers lately thus I don't know where they stand), Elanor Ravenfox and Amonien Amana, both at lvl 28

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PostAuthor: tindertwiggy » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:54 am

Tri'as was the first 20.
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PostAuthor: eNTrOpY » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:16 am

Vian Valorian and Tri'as Ju'eir are also both at lvl 28

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PostAuthor: tindertwiggy » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:18 am

:shock:
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PostAuthor: FunkOdyssey » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:30 am

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PostAuthor: _Wake_ » Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:58 am

FunkOdyssey wrote:Looking over the fence...


:lol: Whats over there huh ? bah! be a long long time to even think about it.
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PostAuthor: Vergilius » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:18 am

The interesting thing to me is how having 40 levels affects level spread.

Does anyone else think that the level 8-14 category seems significantly smaller than either the 1-7 or the 15+? yeah, yeah, I know the team could go check the vault or records, but I can only mention what I see day-in, day-out.

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PostAuthor: Daerthe » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:33 am

The 8-14 category is growing Verg. I know at least two characters who have passed into it this past week. And to be fair the 15+ category contains an awful lot of levels compared to the two other categories...no wonder it's so big. :P

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PostAuthor: Fuzz » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:43 am

8-15 used to be the core level range though, Daerthe... the vast majority of characters were in that range. Now that is not the case anymore.
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PostAuthor: Daerthe » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:49 am

Well Fuzz, perhaps that's because those players kept playing and now their PCs are in the 15+ range. That's been known to happen. :wink:

My PC just recently passed into that middle range and will no doubt be there for a while. So add one to the count. :D

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PostAuthor: choraldances » Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:05 am

eNTrOpY wrote:Vian Valorian and Tri'as Ju'eir are also both at lvl 28


*Raises Mel's Staff*
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PostAuthor: Vergilius » Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:10 am

Here is the thing:

15+ will consist of two types: dedicated long term avlis players and powergamers (who probably won't last long anyway). The number of dedicated long term avlis players will probably only continue to grow and has the slowest attrition rate.

1-8 is mostly newbies, occasional alts for higher level players/DMs/etc. In my experience the highest attrition rate is here, but its also the highest influx. So long as we gain new players at a steady rate, this category is basically stable numerically.

8-15 used to be the core as Fuzz said. There are numberous reasons that have all partially contributed to this. The signficance of this group should be abundantly clear: these represent those who joined avlis, liked avlis and are sticking around, many of whom did/have/will join the ranks of the dedicated. In other words, if this number is smal what does that say about the future of the server? Reflect, how good are we at being newbie friendly?

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PostAuthor: Nighthawk4 » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:46 am

My highest character is a 10. This was only achieved recently and isn't likely to see 11 for a long while, if ever.

My favourite character is a 7. This one is not played all that much either, so 8 is probably some time away.

At the moment, I am having a lot of fun with a recent one, which is now level 2.

Of course, this does not take into account the character I use most often, which is level 1 and Immortal - i.e. my DM avatar. Powergamers? Pah :wink:

As I have so many characters, I have a LOT of experience with low-levels - you just have to stop worrying about 'how do I reach level 20?'. Who cares? Just enjoy the game.

Level 20 is a myth anyway - and as for level 40? - Nah, there is no such thing. It is a trick used by a few mean people to try to encourage new players to Powergame. :lol:
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:01 am

Vergilius wrote:Here is the thing:

15+ will consist of two types: dedicated long term avlis players and powergamers (who probably won't last long anyway). The number of dedicated long term avlis players will probably only continue to grow and has the slowest attrition rate.


*deletes comment about powergamers as it will start a flamefest*

1-8 is mostly newbies, occasional alts for higher level players/DMs/etc. In my experience the highest attrition rate is here, but its also the highest influx. So long as we gain new players at a steady rate, this category is basically stable numerically.


Very true. Janur and Sh'lieulias being exceptions, and Janur beating me bigtime in that category. There are a few others as well, but I always forget them. I swear Sh'lieulias will make level 8 someday...

8-15 used to be the core as Fuzz said. There are numberous reasons that have all partially contributed to this. The signficance of this group should be abundantly clear: these represent those who joined avlis, liked avlis and are sticking around, many of whom did/have/will join the ranks of the dedicated. In other words, if this number is smal what does that say about the future of the server? Reflect, how good are we at being newbie friendly?


It means that everyone is going to end up level 30 and there won't be any new influx of blood. I might add that I notice alot of people get to level 10 or so then quit and disappear. Most of these people powergame their way there then vanish after whining about their lack of equipment. I might also note that there are really two types of characters in this range: the haves and the have-nots. Some of these people are rich in every way, while others have pretty much nothing. Some of this comes from people giving away/buying stuff, and some of it comes from simply not being in on big DM quests. One thing I have noticed though is that, in general, over the last 6 months or so the same characters are ALWAYS at the center of the major plots. You see the same list of names, over and over again. What this leads to is a "rich get richer" syndrome, where the powerful characters get more equipment and are thus more able to participate while those who aren't get left out. I'm not complaining personally (I couldn't, as Sh'lieulias was at the center of such a plot which involved a bunch of people not seen at the center of plots, but some who were and got rewarded a lot as well (namely a couple of high-levelers) while a few others in that plot who did quite a bit but not when DMs were around got diddly) but on a broader scale. You aren't dragging new people into these plots, and I think it may partially be a function of them feeling they cannot contribute because they are "weak".

If you don't involve the people in the 8-14 category, why should they stick around if they are odd-man out all the time? They are always overshadowed by the high-levels, but have been around long enough the DMs don't feel sorry enough for them to make sure they get involved.

Speaking out of experience in the Ezebrus plotline, numerous players I tried to recruit bowed out when they saw a lot of the other people who were involved. A few of the other lowbies who did stick around felt pretty useless the whole time and basically got their butts handed to them. I did not, but I was content trying to organize the whole thing. However, one thing that I think the DM didn't realize (and I never really told them) was that I was intentionally (early on) NOT calling on the well-established organizations because I was trying to recruit lowbies/newbies and get them into an epic plotline. None of them did, except for maybe one, but he got involved later on for other reasons (i.e. an established organization). That particular ploy didn't pay off. However, I believe that it is essential to get players of all categories involved in epic plots rather than simply the epic level ones, else you make them feel like fifth wheels.

Another essential question is: has Avlis tapped out the playerbase who believe in the Avlis formula? Avlis has one of the least harsh death systems of any PW, and relatively low xp (though it is easy to powergame). Combine that with low magic for newbies but considerably higher maic for a chosen few and a low active DM:active player ratio, and you start to get an inkling of why people vanish. Add to that the problem that many players don't get involved in DM quests because they are too weak comparitively, and you start to see the problem. Most of the people who ARE in the 8-14 range who stay there for long are the hardcore RPers; some shoot through that to the 15+ range so they can get in on the epic plots, and it unfortunately works. Thus, the only reason an 8-14er will stick around is because of other players, and a number of them (Brick for one) feel disenfrancished/disgruntled by this and quit, while the rest trooper on. This isn't to say that all level 15+ers are sucky RPers, but there are a few of them who really PGed their way up there and were subsequently rewarded by the DMs with places in major/powerful plots, while people who play twice as much but were lower level did not get that. I'm not complaining personally here, and not naming names, but this did in fact happen and I strongly dislike a few people for that reason, though rationally it is not their fault they were rewarded for behavior that supposedly is looked down upon here, but as DMs are not omnisentient nor omnipotent I'm more likely to blame the players than the DMs.

Now... how would you fix this? The main way is to draw your 8-14er crowd into epic plots, and actively nail those who PGed their way to high level to get into major plots. This simultaneously eliminates the disgruntlement while gives those 8-14ers a reason to stick around.

Just all in my not-so-humble opinion of course, and I'm not complaining personally as both Vence and Sh'lieulias are very well off compared to a lot of people twice their level. My point is that you can't just ignore all the midlevellers on your epic plots. If you make it so that every epic plot needs the epic-level characters, and anyone else might as well not come as they will simply die instantly, you're going to end up with exactly that.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:55 am

Good points: I'd like to point out that nowadays a lot more DM love is given to lower level characters then at the time I started.... then it was basically: if you are around long enough and have played up your level, you get involved... I had quests ~ lvl 8+, with one exception in the crypts looking for a dog.. december 2002 it got better, due to more ppl..

My character is mainly lvl 28 because I didn't quit playing her, but continued to wheel and deal and RP on. Actually, I think it was better without epic levels. You had reached the pinacle of power, you could roleplay without gazing at the next possible level-up.. :)

But TD has a point: I get drawn into plots, mainly because as a character and player I established an information network due to my long presence. I am involved in several information gathering organisations, and deal with the information gained by character concept, mainly amassing more influence, power, and trying to twist events my way... That of course gets me involved in a lot of plots.

As for handing down equipment.. I have tons of low level equipment rotting in my chests. I tried to pass it on at teh tarde fairs, but most people were instantly desinterrested when I didn't show them the holy grail for trade.

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PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:37 am

Starslayer_D wrote:As for handing down equipment.. I have tons of low level equipment rotting in my chests. I tried to pass it on at teh tarde fairs, but most people were instantly desinterrested when I didn't show them the holy grail for trade.


Er... And probably the prices you were asking! I've been at the auctions many times and I am amazed at how much stuff costs! Gold is still hard to come by at low levels, unless you are really into cratfing heal kits or masterwork weapons.

Please Starslayer I've heard you use that line many times (para-phrased): "Lowbees don't want all this great old stuff that I try to sell them!"

... I know you tried to sell on your old stuff, but just because it doesn't all get bought up don't think that nobody wants it (I'd love some +2 gear), but when your bank balance sits at 10k and never above (because of the "cost of living"), I'm not going to afford anything you've got for quite a while.

So, please stop hammering that line! Or drop your prices, and you might see some of it get sold.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:45 am

I bought a bastard sword +3 for 145K, and consider it a good deal. Its not that hard to raise so much cash.

I tried giving away +2 equipment though for a month and no one would take it. It kinda sucked. I was literally giving it away, and no one wanted it. Why the guilt? I didn't want to lug it around. That was just wierd.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: maelwydd » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:48 am

The prices are stupid but as someone has mentioned before 'if someone is willing to pay that much for it then that is their problem'. I sold a bow for 200,000 at the last trade fair. I went there with a list of items to sell and what I wanted for them. The bow I priced at about 10,000. That is 190,000 more then I was willing to sell it for!!! I then herd that someone would have offered 250,000 for it. Some characters have too much money and can literally buy whatever they want. Newbies don't stand a chance.

I remember having a whispered conversation at an early trade fair where we were complaining about the number of high level/lots of gold characters that were just buying everything. As a newbie, you see something and this 'I would really love that and with 10,000 gold I may be about to get it'. then a high levle character offers 100,000 for it and says iw will look nice on their wall!!!

It is a cruel world and it will always happen. The only way to afford these items is to make lots of money somehow and be stupid with your money.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:52 am

One major isssue with the money thing is that some characters can just make obscene amounts of money easily.

Things like the M'chekian special forces spawns give about 2.5K per spawn, which is just rediculous and gives people who run through those an incredible amount of money. Looting houses is another easy way to make huge amounts of money. Heal potions are another way, and I presume crafting weapons yet another. There's numerous ways to make essentially infinite amounts of cash in short periods of time.
Gilkin> ouch. how often do you roll a 20?
Cath> once every 20 rolls?
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PostAuthor: Tangleroot » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:04 pm

Looting houses and alchemy are not for every character (or player, I hate crafting. Would rather play Sims Online than craft). I'd never pay 145k for a sword even if it was +6 sword of Savernok slaying. Even 20k is ridiculous for a sword. We are talking about a bar of metal here, right? And where are these M'Chekian special troops? I'll head over and start farming them right now..
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:17 pm

No idea where they are... ask a T'nanshi soldier, i never meet any.

But I went adventuring in a dangerous place, and for 10 heal potions and 6 cure criticals, I found 16.000 gold and several items worth a total of 5k.. so I went cost even. Most other places offer less gold at less risk, but bring down cost to 0 for me.

Thus, gold by adventuring can be made.

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PostAuthor: Tangleroot » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:23 pm

Am I wrong, but I thought gold finds depend on your level and spawn levels? Thus low-levels find almost nothing, while high levels find loads?
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PostAuthor: kombinat » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:27 pm

Tangleroot wrote:Am I wrong, but I thought gold finds depend on your level and spawn levels? Thus low-levels find almost nothing, while high levels find loads?


That's been my experience.. at lvl 15 finding drops of 300-500gp, prior to that gold drops were much lower.. maybe I'm just killing more and bigger things, but when a higher level char than me kills stuff the drops from those same beasties seem to be considerably higher.
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PostAuthor: Dirk Cutlass » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:29 pm

Tangleroot wrote:Am I wrong, but I thought gold finds depend on your level and spawn levels? Thus low-levels find almost nothing, while high levels find loads?


Yes - for gold and the random loot drop that is the case. So a lvl 1-5 lvl PC find almost nothing (maybe up to 100 gold on 1 body out of 10). But a 17 lvl PC will find say 500 gold and/or random scroll/potion/gem on 1 body in 4... ish - based on my experience. These are just regular monsters not special dungeon areas.

However, things like M'Check special forces probably have static drops of armor and weapons that are worthwhile. However, you'd have to be a T'Nanshi sympathizer to kill one.. or just a plain murderer / bandit.
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