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Watch list

Forum for posing direct questions to the Avlis Team. Purpose is to facilitate Team/Player communication.

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Watch list

PostAuthor: Morbid Ridicule » Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:56 am

Does asking the team if you're on the watch list automatically cause them to suspect that you should be? :D
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:50 am

Without exception. If you ask, you must have a guilty conscience. :D

In all seriousness... nah. It's a fair question, because sometimes people get suspected unfairly, for things that look suspicious but aren't. The Team's pretty tolerant and lenient by and large, so that shouldn't be a concern. Sometimes people wonder if something they did was wrong, and don't know how to ask... and sometimes, too, people DO have guilty consciences. ;)

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PostAuthor: jadeia » Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:59 am

Yeh you can ask us, it's not uber secret...

*adds Morbid Ridicule to the watchlist*
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PostAuthor: Vergilius » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:07 am

Actually, I think I can answer this question in a way that should head off all future inquiries into "am I on the watchlist?"

http://www.avlis.org/viewtopic.php?t=17638

This is for the avlis policy on warnings.

http://www.avlis.org/viewtopic.php?t=17651

This is for what those warnings mean.


As I read the rules, you cannot be on the watchlist and somehow not know about it, short of a communication error between the team and the player. Perhaps a team member could comment on whether I am correct in this statement?

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PostAuthor: Vanor » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:23 pm

Vergilius wrote:As I read the rules, you cannot be on the watchlist and somehow not know about it, short of a communication error between the team and the player.


You're right. It's amazingly unlikely someone would end up on the watch list and not know about it. There hasn't been a single person that I know of added to that list, that wasn't spoken to In Game by a DM prior to them being added.
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PostAuthor: par700 » Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:40 pm

Does this watch list include powergamers?

If someone seems to be powergaming, do DM's tell that person who's PG'ing to chill out?

Just some curiosity questions.

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PostAuthor: Furin » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:51 am

Powergamers might not be on the watch list, but there's a good chance that they are on particular DM's "ignore lists" (which have been mentioned in other threads by various DMs).

So if what you want is to level up quickly so that you can be more useful in DM quests, you've got yourself a catch-22.

This raises a good point, though: if a DM sees someone powergaming, I think it might be useful for the DM to let the person know that what he/she is doing is in fact powergaming. Newbs might not know, and even vets might be suitably chastened that they change their ways.

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PostAuthor: Scurvy_Platypus » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:34 am

A quick search about powergaming reveals this.

Since this is in the rules section, I belive this qualifies as sufficient information. All a person has to do is read the rules.
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PostAuthor: par700 » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:50 am

Yes, yes. I've read alot of the boards. But Furin has the point I was thinking of also....

Team/player communication could help in this. Heck when I first started playing Avlis I was guilty of PG'ing. I don't see what wrong with letting a player know that he/she is starting to be considered a PG'er by the team.

Better than just being ignored overall I think.

Thanks Furin.

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PostAuthor: KinX » Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:40 am

what concerns me is when there's no one else on the server (which is a common occurence when you play in my timezone) and you decide to go out someplace challenging, which at my lev is limited to a few places. Only to find that a DM has decided that you're powergaming.

I admit to trawling through certain places, but any other place like the ogre caves tends to be boring when they die at the flick of your finger.

I'm not saying i want more high lev areas, just a little understanding and maybe a bit more leniency when labelling players as powergamers. A warning would help aswell.
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PostAuthor: Vergilius » Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:27 am

KinX wrote:what concerns me is when there's no one else on the server (which is a common occurence when you play in my timezone) and you decide to go out someplace challenging, which at my lev is limited to a few places. Only to find that a DM has decided that you're powergaming.

I admit to trawling through certain places, but any other place like the ogre caves tends to be boring when they die at the flick of your finger.

I'm not saying i want more high lev areas, just a little understanding and maybe a bit more leniency when labelling players as powergamers. A warning would help aswell.


From my experience on the boards, it is players who are very quick to throw the powergaming accusation out at the drop of the hat. The DMs are perfectly aware that it is not the fact that you are out soloing that makes you a powergamer but why you are out soloing.

As defined in the thread that SP linked to, ""Powergaming is level advancement without character development."" Note that leveling up quickly is not mentioned here. Leveling up quickly can happen for a lot of reasons: ie you play a lot of hours, your character RPs in a way that they go out in groups very frequently, heck even DM quests can be worth several K of XP when all is tabulated.

The defining question rather is, "Have I been doing things to help my character develop his/her personality, grow in the world of Avlis and have I been effective at communicating that to others?" If you can answer yes to this, then you're in good shape.

To be honest, to call somebody a Powergamer is among the worst of insults in our community and most people who would conform to the guidelines of the community are quite sensitive to it.

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PostAuthor: Deider » Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:57 am

I can't speak for other DMs here, but here's how I go about it.

Though it hasn't been happening lately, I log on at least every other day, daily if possible. If I see someone soloing in the same place fighting the same creatures every time I log on, even when there are other people on the server, then odds are I'll label you a powergamer.

But I've been on the player side as well - like KinX said, there are times when you can't find anyone else to group with or maybe you just feel like cutting loose on some monsters. Before I became a DM I'd log into Mikona and check the hot spots. If I couldn't scrounge up a group or at least a partner to RP with, then I'd go harvest some bellies for Jerto, and maybe crack open an adventure pack. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Orl wrote somewhere his general rule of thumb on this - if you've reached level 20 and the DMs don't know who your Avlis character is, you are probably a powergamer. Because on the way to level 20 you should have interacted with others (and at least a few DMs) in some way or other. If I don't even have a hint as to your personality, your affiliations if any, or your past deeds, then my big gnome nose hairs start to twitch.

And the watchlist is not the end of the world - it's exactly as it sounds, a list of people we watch, because they might be doing something funny. Not funny ha-ha, funny exploiting/cheating/griefing.
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mhm

PostAuthor: Pekarion » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:55 am

stop it, you're ruining my illusions of grandeur :roll:
I like to think that all the DM's log on to see me play :lol:
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Re: mhm

PostAuthor: ashzz » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:02 am

Pekarion wrote:stop it, you're ruining my illusions of grandeur :roll:
I like to think that all the DM's log on to see me play :lol:


only because your number 2 on the watchlist, after me :lol:
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PostAuthor: Vanor » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:05 pm

Deider basicly hit the nail on the head. Powergaming is more then a single action or something you do time to time. It's a way of playing, that revloves around the PC's mechanical power.

If someone makes 20th lvl on Avlis and none of the DM's know that PC at all, then most likely they are a powergamer. You simply can't play enough to reach 20th here and not get involved or at least seen by a DM.

Also like he said, the watch list is not the end of the world. It just means someone spoted you doing something that is questionable, or we got serveral reports of someone doing something questionable. Even then though no one ends up on the watch list without a DM being involved somehow.
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