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the gods and clerics and druids

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the gods and clerics and druids

PostAuthor: ashzz » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:42 pm

alright,

i hear the scripts are going in to make clerics out of alignment or that DO NOT have a god on the world they are on be unable to use spells above level 3 as i understand it.

first, ill say, brilliant idea. this makes perfect IC sense, and is the way it should be.

however, im also seriously concerned about something. level three and lower means no deathward, no SR, no freedom, a lot of the major buffs that clerics give out to help them and their party.

i cannot even begin to imagine being part of the recent DM events on hala or other copap worlds without spells above level 3. this means my character is stuck in avlis. right fine, avlis is cool. problem is, the other worlds are starved for players. cutting the clerics power out is going to even further impact their player draw imho.

in an IC sense i love it. in a gameplay and good for COPAP sense, i have my worries.

im curious to know what the stance of the team is?

Im worried this may hurt copap more than helping it.

so whats the word? clerics stay home? and all yur friends that need you for deathwards and such stay home too?

im really concerned about this. obviously more so because my mains a cleric. im starting to wonder if i need to dump my character and make a new one so i can explore copap...and that totally breaks imho the spirit of copap, and why im so concerned.

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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:19 pm

OK firstly, as of right now this is a Avlis only change.

Secondly, this change brings us more in line with the PnP rules, and the rules by which Orl has run his PnP Avlis.

Clerics with no god name on their character sheet will be effected.
Also effected will be cleric whos alignment is not within tolerance for their god. (ie a CE cleric of a LG god)

How will this effect CoPaP? I am not sure to this point, and we are still working on all of the details of the system.
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:12 pm

As Alex said, right now this change is only being looked at within Avlis, meaning otherworld clerics who visit would find their magic restricted (unless they worship an offworld god who has power in Avlis, e.g. Corellon Larethian or Ptah). Avlissian clerics who travel elsewhere would be unaffected, unless and until the other CoPaP worlds add similar restrictions.

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PostAuthor: Garand » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:52 pm

Will clerics of other world faiths be able to (over the long term of course) bring their god in? For instance ... collect enough worshippers to give an off-world god a shot at being recognized by the Power That Is on Avlis?

Will there be gods on Avlis that will accept other followers of other gods that have similar or duplicate beliefs of their own (ie. A follower of Torm comes to Avlis and Gorethar grants the cleric power because their believes are almost identical)?
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PostAuthor: Alexandru Stanicu » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:57 pm

No, only if one of the greater Nine allows them access to Avlis will they have any power.

Followers of other gods who come here, might get picked up by a Avlis deity, but if so they will have to convert.
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PostAuthor: ashzz » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:58 pm

ok thanks for the answer.

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PostAuthor: Nighthawk4 » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:08 pm

Since the facility was added, I have helped to convert about half a dozen people, who did not have a deity specified. Each time I spot a Cleric, I check their Deity field and offer to help if this is blank. Alignments are also adjustable if required.

Of course, this only applies if I am logged in as a DM and if I am not busy with something else. However, I am quite happy to help people in this way when convenient - although this should not be taken as a reason to leave the Deity field blank when you create a character.

Also, please do not send me TELLS when I am logged as a player. When I am on as a DM, a request to the DM channel may not get you instant assistance, but if it is not convenient, I will at least make a note of your name and contact you later.
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PostAuthor: Vichan Lyonsen » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:26 am

Nighthawk4 wrote:Since the facility was added, I have helped to convert about half a dozen people, who did not have a deity specified. Each time I spot a Cleric, I check their Deity field and offer to help if this is blank. Alignments are also adjustable if required..


I havent had nearly as much luck as NH4 - almost every person I have found in this condition either claims to worship some Faerun deity, or hast the faintest idea who they are going to worship or cant meet the requirements of the one they do.

I am not likely to swap on request, a players Alignment to match the god they select especially if it is significantly off.

Also it has been noted elsewhere, that many (if not all) of the temples located about avlis can now perform conversions, in other words if you are a follower of Dru'el go to his temple in elysia and they can convert you (i.e. fill in your deity field)
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:42 am

There will be items which we will implement that will enable a cleric to "contact their home power" from wherever they are, but these items will be not so easy to get.

This will hopefully be a copap-wide system. Most if not all the worlds should be adopting it as part of the Avlis core code.
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PostAuthor: Titanium Dragon » Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:02 am

I see it as one of the major disadvantages of being a cleric, but a balanced one. Not only does it make perfect IC sense, but it also prevents at least some really powerful characters from wandering into other worlds and messing up their religions and such.

Here is a question though - places like Hala and the Abyss 404 are outer planes. As such, do all the gods have access there, none, only those native to that plane...?
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm

Titanium Dragon wrote:Here is a question though - places like Hala and the Abyss 404 are outer planes. As such, do all the gods have access there, none, only those native to that plane...?


To be fair, it should be up to each Team to decide this for their own world. ;)

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PostAuthor: Orleron » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:48 pm

Right, it's up to each server leader to decide, but if you want the technical D&D answer: sometimes.

Certain areas of an outer plane may belong to a deity's personal realm. In that realm, the deity is king, and they can do whatever the hell they want in terms of deity access, especially if they are a greater god.

For generic outer plane areas, it depends on what plane your deity resides in. If he's on a nearby plane, then chances are you can cast fine. If he's on Seven Heavens and you're in the Abyss, you will probably experience some level decrease in your divine spellcasting.

Then of course there is the plane of Concordant Opposition, aka The Outlands, where magic of all kinds starts to deteriorate as you get to the center. You can even kill a greater god with an ordinary knife if you are both close enough to the center of that plane.
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PostAuthor: Psychopathaway » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:43 pm

Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?



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PostAuthor: choraldances » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:04 am

Psychopathaway wrote:Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?



Hathas.


Pick another god :)
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:07 am

Psychopathaway wrote:Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?

Hathas.


Dru'El's worshippers are ALL NG or CG. He has no Lawful followers.

Remember, clerics have to be within one step on the law/chaos axis of their god's alignment, but the ALSO have to meet any requirements to be a worshipper, at the same time. So all worshippers, and also all clerics and druids of Dru'El are NG or CG.

So... * points to choral's post * :)

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:17 am

choraldances wrote:
Psychopathaway wrote:Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?



Hathas.


Pick another god :)


Give one possible god.
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PostAuthor: Jordicus » Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:30 am

Khaelindra wrote:
choraldances wrote:
Psychopathaway wrote:Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?



Hathas.


Pick another god :)


Give one possible god.


Toran - LN
Gorethar - LG
Valok - LE

any of those Gods would have no problem having a Monk/Cleric multiclass. just make sure it's for RP purposes, not metagaming purposes.. :wink:
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PostAuthor: Aloro » Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:42 am

Also Angadar (LE), Hurine (LN), and The'ton (LE). Remember, clerics are supposed to match their gods alignment exactly... they're allowed to temporarily be off by one step on the law/chaos axis, but if you're planning a character like this, you should just look at Lawful gods.

That's all of them, between this post and the one above. Well, and Aryeh Gidol (LN) is the other option, if you're a Wemic.

You can find a list of Avlissian deities here.

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Last edited by Aloro on Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostAuthor: Achm3d » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:33 am

EDIT: nuthin' to see here, move along now. ;)

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PostAuthor: Aloro » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:43 am

D'oh! See what comes of working on multiple things at once? :oops:

My bad. Thanks, Achm3d. Fixed my above link, too.

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PostAuthor: Khaelindra » Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:52 am

Jordicus wrote:
Khaelindra wrote:
choraldances wrote:
Psychopathaway wrote:Just a hypothetical here :wink:

Being a Monk (Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral due to alignment restriction), would it be possible to take levels in Cleric and worship Dru'El whose worshippers states Nuetral or Chaotic Good and still cast spells beyond 3rd Level. Does this fall within tolerance for worshipping Dru'El for both Lawful Good or Lawful Nuetral?



Hathas.


Pick another god :)


Give one possible god.


Toran - LN
Gorethar - LG
Valok - LE

any of those Gods would have no problem having a Monk/Cleric multiclass. just make sure it's for RP purposes, not metagaming purposes.. :wink:


I am sorry, i had in mind an earlier post in the thread, hence my question not clearly formulated.

What would a god be for a LN druid? A druid that wishes to reject all artificial things like equipment, rely on nothing but his natural abilities to be in perfect balance with the natural order, hence go around the world as a druid-monk?


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PostAuthor: Tangleroot » Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:01 am

Only Dagath could produce a LN druid from looking at the deific chart.

A druid that wishes to reject all artificial things like equipment, rely on nothing but his natural abilities to be in perfect balance with the natural order, hence go around the world as a druid-monk?


That's exactly what I had in mind when creating my character. Too bad the alignments didn't exactly match. Still, the concept was too intriguing so I did it anyway, miraculously coming up with a biography that actually makes sense..

Too bad the "equipment is for wussies philosophy" was diluted when I noticed that refusing things like ammy of natural armor +1 produced a character that could barely take on rats.. So I actually use rings and amulets these days. Now armor and clothes.. they're a different story.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:39 pm

In the next hakpak version, alignment restrictions from Druids will be lifted completely, because it's easier that way. We'll be able to control whether or not the Druid can cast spells with other software which depends on alignment.

Other CoPaP worlds will need to modify their classes.2da to put back the restrictions if they wish to have them. Simple thing though.
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PostAuthor: storminj » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:01 pm

Tangleroot wrote:Only Dagath could produce a LN druid from looking at the deific chart.
.


I beleive this is wrong. In past druidic posts Dagath only produces Druids of true neutral alignment. There is still no god that produces NE druids either.
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PostAuthor: Tangleroot » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:04 pm

storminj wrote:
Tangleroot wrote:Only Dagath could produce a LN druid from looking at the deific chart.
.


I beleive this is wrong. In past druidic posts Dagath only produces Druids of true neutral alignment. There is still no god that produces NE druids either.


Well, I only looked at the part where it says Dagath approves any alignment. Clarification could help.
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