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Detect Evil

Forum for posing direct questions to the Avlis Team. Purpose is to facilitate Team/Player communication.

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Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Lesli » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:50 pm

So, I have a question about detect evil. As I understand it, I push the little button, and everybody who's evil makes a save. If they win the save, I know nothing. If I win, I know that that person, over there (even if they're one in a group) radiates an aura of evil, but unless they've told me, I don't know their name or anything else about them. If I'm wrong on any part of that, please let me know.

My question, though, is whether or not people know I'm detecting evil at any point. My avatar makes a little gesture. Do people get to spellcraft that? Is it ooc?

Also, what's the rule for detecting evil on people who are stealthed? In the sense of getting a ping but not seeing the person it's coming from? *shrugs* Just figured I'd ask while I was here.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: spool32 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:11 am

We'll research what the past rulings have been and get back to you... I know that when you get into the finer points of this, there's quite a bit of confusion.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: DeadEyeDave » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:29 am

Edit: Ask the TEAM
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Premonition » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:33 am

DeadEyeDave wrote:
Lesli wrote:My question, though, is whether or not people know I'm detecting evil at any point. My avatar makes a little gesture. Do people get to spellcraft that? Is it ooc?




i've been in game and out of no where i make a save (fort i think?) and i think it was against someone detecting evil.

so to add on to the previous question, if your character has just made some kind of save, does the character automatically know what danger or spell or whatever he's been saved from?


Normally, if you make the spellcraft check, then yes (if this is the case for Detect evil aswell i'll let spool get back to you lot about).

So it can go 2 ways.

1. You make the spellcraft check, recognize the spell/psionic and know what was tried.

or

2. You fail the spellcraft check and basically have no clue what the hell happened. you just saw a bunch of pretty lights and something happened to you, though you got no clue what.

Ofcourse if someone chucks a fireball at you but you failed the spellcraft check you'd most likely still realize it was a fireball, seeing how it's a ... well big ball of fire.

As for Detect evil, well there's 2 types afaik? the actual spell which is cast. and the paladin/holy warrior ability? (correct me if i'm wrong here). I'd think and note that i think that the spell would be subject to spellcraft stuff, seeing how it's a spell. The holy warrior ability, again i'll leave to spool.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Sapperken » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:40 pm

Unless we come back with any new changes to the way the ability works...

Yes, people know you're detecting evil if they receive a note in their combat log saying that you're detecting evil (more specifically, using Prestige Class Detect. Which prestige class you are should be fairly obvious, except Avengers and Annihilators, who are oftentimes sneaky 8-) ). If they don't get that message, then they do not know what you're doing. Simple.

When you detect evil and get somebody's name (ooc'ly, of course) that you cannot see, chances are that they are stealthed or invisible. Detect evil will tell you that you feel an evil presence, but it will not tell you whether it is behind you, in front of you, to the left, right, etc.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: DanishPastry » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:52 pm

Lesli wrote:So, I have a question about detect evil. As I understand it, I push the little button, and everybody who's evil makes a save. If they win the save, I know nothing. If I win, I know that that person, over there (even if they're one in a group) radiates an aura of evil, but unless they've told me, I don't know their name or anything else about them. If I'm wrong on any part of that, please let me know.

Wrong. The Detect [insert appropriate] allows you to sense that someone or something who is in your immediate vicinity radiates the alignment tendency in question. This does not, however, allow for you to pinpoint the exact source of the radiation. The more people around you, the lower the possibility to make an educated guess on who radiates said alignment tendency. Also, keep in mind that there's most often plenty of NPCs around although you cannot actually see them.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Melakin Skywieder » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:26 pm

Also I do not believe you get a indication of how evil someone is (please correct me if I am wrong)

So there would be no way to determine the difference between the mass murderer and the little boy who stole some cookies :D :P
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: PsiOmega » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:45 pm

Nob wrote:
DanishPastry wrote:Wrong. The Detect [insert appropriate] allows you to sense that someone or something who is in your immediate vicinity radiates the alignment tendency in question. This does not, however, allow for you to pinpoint the exact source of the radiation. The more people around you, the lower the possibility to make an educated guess on who radiates said alignment tendency. Also, keep in mind that there's most often plenty of NPCs around although you cannot actually see them.


Just for the record, the actual detect alignment ability returns the feedback message that:

"You detect an aura of <alignment> around <character floaty>."

This has been the message ever since the original prc_detect (which I then adapted for the Detect Alignment spell), so whoever came up with the "you can't pinpoint the source" ruling, either never actually used a prestige class detect ability and was simply unaware of this.

The saves you make are not meant to be displayed, the only reason they're visible at all is an engine limitation that I couldn't get rid of.

Some additinoal notes:
1. There is no spellcraft check to the prestige class detects, nor is there a casting time. This is intentional and has existed from the original implementation. The only visible IG action is the "shrug" effect of a character using an item/feat.

2. The divine spell detect alignment is IDable with a spellcraft check. Again, intentional.

3. The additional floaty message is: "OOC Note: All names given by this power are out of character." This is because of the message above which returns the name of the creature which has that aura to begin with.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Hamlet » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:46 pm

Sapperken wrote:Detect evil will tell you that you feel an evil presence, but it will not tell you whether it is behind you, in front of you, to the left, right, etc.


Related question: Is the Detect Evil innate ability limited to creatures alone, IC-ly? I.e., can the Paladin be certain that the aura comes from an evil person, and not from a cursed object that a not-necessarily-evil person happens to hold, or from the ground on which the Paladin stands? X:|
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: llhht » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:38 pm

This isn't really an AtT question, and has no bearing in AtT. I'm going to leave this thread here since some good questions have been posed.

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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Sapperken » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:57 pm

All your questions are being discussed. Bear with us while we get you some concrete answers and try to clear up some confusion on the finer points. For now, all the info that TEAM MEMBERS have posted should be used.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: llhht » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:18 pm

.....work has got me aggitated lately, so I'll keep it nice.


Since my previous post was removed, does this feat/spell work properly IG?

I can take up more space with another post asking the same question, if you want. I had planned to rip it apart for Avlis coding and brought that project to a standstill after Nob or Madk@ (can't remember which) told me it was broken in the first place. No point in stealing code from a broken function ;)
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Sears610 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:32 am

Sapperken wrote:All your questions are being discussed. Bear with us while we get you some concrete answers and try to clear up some confusion on the finer points. For now, all the info that TEAM MEMBERS have posted should be used.


Just wondering if anything has come from the team discussion on this? Thanks Team!
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Trole » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:24 am

It didn't exist in the game at one point( was told it was added with an update so clerics could cast detect evil neutral or good), Can this skill/spell be removed to cause less headaches and questions involving it? or is it hard coded into one of the updates?
Last edited by Trole on Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Darkfire » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:25 am

No.

it's there for a reason. :)
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Trole » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:01 am

Darkfire wrote:No.

it's there for a reason. :)


No it can't be removed?
No it's not hardcoded?
Was the reason it was added for player or DM benefit?
It's current status add's no player benifit other than metagaming ? ( i understand fully if it's used by DM's to better understand the group of PC's standing infront of them, 20 pc's infront of me...15 evil, 4 neutral, 1 good.. time for the darkfire.. :) )

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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Etzie » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:13 am

*bumps this thread too as no answers seem to have been given*

Etzie wrote:*bump*

Something came up in game, and I'd like to know if the check that is done as a holy warrior is IC or not. I was under the impression, not, (and just construed as a concentrated look at someone) but since someone else thought it was an IC action, and things went from there, I thought I'd ask to be clear on it.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Chasnor » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:32 am

As the other side of this instance, I was wondering too.

I had a will save, so did I notice something? I saw a PrC Detect in the box. WYSWYG and all.

We went with I saw it as we didn't know for sure, but a definitive answer would be great.


Final answer will be updated to the Wiki by me.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: spool32 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:39 am

Yeah, we're trying to sort it out for the Prestige class... for clerics it's easy. Be back with a good answer soon.

We'll also explore trying to make the system behave in ways that dovetail with the IC ruling.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Gorgon » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:08 am

Just for clarification (yes, I know a few things are being discussed), I'd like clear yes or no answers on the following:
*If the answer is different between the spell and prc version, please include both. SC checks cover most, but we need one place to look for the answers*

If detect x alignment is used, can others detect it was used, or at least that the person using it did something (and who as well as how if yes)?

Should the person using/casting the detection regard the save rolls as OOC information, especially ones who make the save (names are obviously OOC)?

Can the person using/casting the detection point out people who fail their saves, or do they only know they are around?

Sorry, but this is something that has been pretty vague for years with several sources posting things that contradict other posts.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Etzie » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:02 am

*bumps the thread back on up there*
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Lesli » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:26 pm

bump!
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Moredo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:38 pm

spool32 wrote:...for clerics it's easy.


X:|

I don't know the ruling for clerics, do explain. ;)
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: spool32 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:58 pm

Moredo wrote:
spool32 wrote:...for clerics it's easy.


X:|

I don't know the ruling for clerics, do explain. ;)


Cleric Detect is a spell. You cast it, with all ID the rules for casting, and if people make their spellcraft checks they know what you did. If they don't, they don't.

We're still trying to work out a consistent decision here for HW detect.
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Re: Detect Evil

PostAuthor: Moredo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:01 pm

Yeah, I get that part, but what do you know once the spell is cast? Can I say: "Hey Silver, you know what? You're evil! I know 'cus my god told me!" (preferably a bit more IC).
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