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An Etiquette Guide For Pick Pockets

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Moderator: Dungeon Masters

An Etiquette Guide For Pick Pockets

PostAuthor: Rabbit Man » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:09 am

There seems to be at least four, maybe five, characters in Avlis now that are frequent pick pockets. I am all for the villain characters in Avlis, but I request those that use the pick pocket skill to take it very easy on newbies. Today, a level one newbie on his or her very first character in Avlis fell victim to a pick pocket. While this is a reality in the world of Avlis, there are very good reasons out of character not to target newbies. They need to be given a chance to fall in love with the world so they keep coming back. They need to learn that Avlis does not tolerate grief style playing. They need to learn that Avlis truly is a place where conflicts are character versus character, not player versus player. That takes time in the world to learn, regardless of the server announcements. But a newbie on the first visit to the market place getting his pocket picked might assume that Avlis is another server that griefs newbies, which is not true. So I would hope that the pick pockets would refrain from targeting newbies, say level 5 and lower. If you have to pick their pocket for in character reasons, limit your picks of newbies to one item. Then they know to avoid you and they still have a chance to enjoy the world as much as everyone else that did not have to worry about pick pockets when they first started.

The Costas LaBlack character makes it a policy not to harass and kill new people. While picking pockets is not as extreme as the things Costas gets up to, pick pockets can turn a newbie against the world even more easily then what Costas does. I personally like the villains, but I know the world well enough to deal with them. I also know how hard it is for pick pocket character to survive. Today I ?captured? and started harassing a pick pocket when another pick pocket stole my stuff?twice. That is fun for me, (Mr. Second Pickpocket--watch your back) and hard for the pick pocket. But I know it is part of the game and I know how to deal with it in character. A newbie probably will not see it the same way.

Any other suggestions for having pick pockets in the game without alienating newbies?

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PostAuthor: Orleron » Tue Dec 24, 2002 1:49 am

Well said.
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PostAuthor: Silk » Tue Dec 24, 2002 3:18 am

Obviously, anytime a thief picks a pocket, he is making a risky act because of the consequences. So if you think about it, It doesn't make sense for a thief to target a newbie becuase you're risk is too much for the little reward you'd get.

I'd be more apt to pickpocket Kima's cleavage... I heard there's alot of gold in there.
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PostAuthor: Ashlynn » Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:00 am

Heh...a girl's gotta carry it SOMEwhere. :cool:

But any thief caught with his hand "goin' for the goods" is gonna be scratchin' his ass with a stump.

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My take...

PostAuthor: Jorio Alerian » Tue Dec 24, 2002 2:31 pm

I agree with the previous posts.

I personally have seen renegade rouges pick the pockets of newbies, and even my character at lower levels. It did not make a good impression for the newbies, but it offered my character the chance to role play with them and give them some in-character advice about getting around and handling themselves while in the City.

Lets just say that this particular rogue, after being offered the chance to repent his ways, saw the end of a bloodied mace smite him down. The only things that could be heard in the quiet echoes of a back alley was "I have been hurt, someone heal me!" hahahhahh!

Unfortunately, the server timed out right then! Arrrggg.

So, please take it easy on the newbies. If not, you will always have to watch your back, because my characters will hunt you down like the filthy vermin you are! :)

On that note, Happy Holidays!
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PostAuthor: MAKABRE » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:43 am

Originally posted by Silk
Obviously, anytime a thief picks a pocket, he is making a risky act because of the consequences. So if you think about it, It doesn't make sense for a thief to target a newbie becuase you're risk is too much for the little reward you'd get.



Well.. it does make sense. .a newbie hardly can get revenge on that pickpocket.. he hardly can harm him (beat him up or such)
But if one steal from a high lvl.. well.. he can be slain by a spell, nailed down by a dozen fire-arrows, gettin bashed with a BIG Magic axe.
All things that can kill a thief even if he runs away fast.
But a newbi cant do such things to a thief.. so basicly the thief has LESS risk.. but its coward :(
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:06 pm

Alright, I saw this thread get revived and I wanted to jump on it before everyone else.

Before you all go flaming about pickpocketing I just wanted to let you know that Silk is working on a pickpocketing tool that will severely limit pickpocketing. So as of now most arguments are useless since the stuff that goes on right now will not be happening in a week or so.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:25 pm

Also, just some guidlines here... the first post by rabbit man is still good. Don't target low levelers.

Often in game it is hard to say whether someone's "character" knows that they were pickpocketed. The rule is that if you get a message about losing an item, then you can act on it in character. If you don't get a message, you can't act on it. Once the pickpocket tools are working, we will make sure you get the messages when necessary.

It's fine to say that you are missing something. "My dagger is gone. I wonder who took it." But if you didn't get a message about who took it, you shouldn't act on it.

Silk, we need to make sure that under certain circumstances the cutpurse tool tells you who stole from you. This will clear up a lot of problems with pickpocketing.

Btw, the tools will be sold in the rogue's underground when they're ready. They are only in testing right now.
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PostAuthor: d2rain » Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:49 pm

I disagree about it telling you who took the item. If I were pickpocketing on the street I might or might not get a good look at them. Hence arrows going in the back of the person running away.
You should get a message like you lost an item, or you lost 'x' to pickpocket, and you look around to see who is near you and or walking away, cast true seeing or something.
But I don't think just because one did a successful pickpocket, the victim should automatically know who it was withougt chasing them down.

This is just my opinion, and you can shoot me down if you want

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PostAuthor: Krilla Blake » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:10 pm

As I understand it, there's a "chance" that it tells you. It's akin to succeeding some kind of check, or maybe just a random percentage. I.E, you felt that guy snag your wallet.

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PostAuthor: Orleron » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:18 pm

In 3rd Ed D&D, when someone attempts to PP you, they roll their PP skill and you roll a spot check. If your spot check is higher than their PP check, you SEE them. So that's how it should be here. If your spot check beats their PP check, damn right they should know who took it. You SPOTTED them. That's why they called the skill "spot". :)

Now if you lose your spot check, then no. You don't have any idea who took it.
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PostAuthor: d2rain » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:19 pm

I missed your line when you said to Silk 'in certain circumstances'
Yes the above way is what I was talking about. I reread you line after I posted.

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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Thu Jan 16, 2003 11:40 pm

One thing.... can we make housekeys non-pickpocketable?

Best would be non-lootable as well, to awoid the hold-up and then clear out the house style of roberies.

Else, there may be a demand for key changes in the future.
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PostAuthor: choraldances » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:34 am

Originally posted by Starslayer_D
One thing.... can we make housekeys non-pickpocketable?

Best would be non-lootable as well, to awoid the hold-up and then clear out the house style of roberies.

Else, there may be a demand for key changes in the future.


This is also my concern, as I've already witness one key being stolen, luckily it was returned. Is it possible to do this? And does this mean that every key must be remade?
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PostAuthor: choraldances » Fri Jan 17, 2003 12:35 am

Or, Silk, can you script the pick pocket tool that you have right now and make it not be able to pick up keys?
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:23 am

Yes, actually it's better than that. The way the pickpocket tool will work is it has a list of things that it CAN pickpocket. If the thief uses it and it randomly selects something that's not on that list, it won't pickpocket it. It will scroll through your inventory and take the first thing it finds that its elligible for stealing.

Keys of course will not be elligible, nor will anything bigger than a short sword.
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PostAuthor: Chiatroll » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:27 am

Could there be tools for speific items.


When you take gold the player does not get the message that the gold was stolen unlike most items and its very classic for the RP of a pickpocket even if the amount is generally so small it's not worth it.

A tool to target gold specifically as well would sound really neat.
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PostAuthor: choraldances » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:58 am

Originally posted by Orleron
Yes, actually it's better than that. The way the pickpocket tool will work is it has a list of things that it CAN pickpocket. If the thief uses it and it randomly selects something that's not on that list, it won't pickpocket it. It will scroll through your inventory and take the first thing it finds that its elligible for stealing.

Keys of course will not be elligible, nor will anything bigger than a short sword.


Great to hear!

by bigger, you mean weighing more I assume right?
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PostAuthor: MAKABRE » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:14 am

Originally posted by choraldances

Great to hear!

by bigger, you mean weighing more I assume right?


Well, hopefully NOT only weigth.. i cant imagine someone taking a suit or Cloak out of my backback without me seeing it.. its small weight.. but it takes up a LOT of space in a backpack..
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PostAuthor: Chiatroll » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:25 am

And you wouldn't notice the weight loss from a thief plucking abunch of ore from you?

not that a thief would steal rocks by mistake but it is random.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:19 pm

Again, guys, no perfect system is possible on NWN. So we'll do what we can.

There will be no separate tool for stealing gold, but we're working on messages for pickpocketing in addition to the messages you recieve from the NWN engine.
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PostAuthor: Chiatroll » Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:44 pm

If the messages from the NWN engine can't be removed can they be delayed.

Normally you won't use the item you take right away and the person would notice the missing item after a while anyway.

So, if on a successful pickpocket if there was a five or ten minute delay it before the item is moved from the victem to the pickpocket it would give the pickpocket time not to be connected to the crime. Especially when lots of people are on. Of course the person stolen from may loose the item by then, but it would be rare.

You shouldn't disconect right after picking a pocket anyway.
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:53 pm

Messages in NWN are hardcoded and untouchable. The best we can do is send additional messages to the PC giving them advice on how to roleplay the encounter. That's what we plan on doing.
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PostAuthor: GISteve » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:27 pm

cool, that cleared up something for me

i had been talking to a pair in the market and saw the lost XXX item, wasnt really sure if that was actually the game notifying me i had been pickpocketed or not, so i played along that i had not noticed, oh well, i know now, so Thieves "Beware"

the tool sounds great, i thought it was odd that a thief could pickpocket a Tower Shield
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PostAuthor: Strangg » Fri Feb 07, 2003 12:18 am

GISteve wrote:cool, that cleared up something for me

i had been talking to a pair in the market and saw the lost XXX item, wasnt really sure if that was actually the game notifying me i had been pickpocketed or not, so i played along that i had not noticed, oh well, i know now, so Thieves "Beware"

the tool sounds great, i thought it was odd that a thief could pickpocket a Tower Shield


The tool isn't suppsoed to allow that. More than likely they were using normal PP.

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