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Discussion of Avlis policy on: Faking IC races/abilities aka

Rules and Guidelines

Moderator: Dungeon Masters

PostAuthor: badstar2k3 » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:25 pm

While in combat the swing and missing thing is kinda boring. You mean I can type in while my character is fighting whoever

"Stabs bandit in eye with kukri then slices a Z in the bandits shirt"

Of course I don't expect the damage to be accumulated from that but I do like to pretend my char is doing all kinds of moves while swinging his swords.
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PostAuthor: Vanor » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:34 pm

badstar2k3 wrote:Of course I don't expect the damage to be accumulated from that but I do like to pretend my char is doing all kinds of moves while swinging his swords.


That would be fine.

The two problems Orleron was talking about were...

One, was people acting like they had ablities they didn't really have and weren't supported in NWN, like saying you were a frost giant, or vampire.

Two, was expecting other PC's to act and react as if you had those ablities.

What your talking about is adding a little extra flurish to combat... As long as you don't demand that a PC act as if you just cut out their eye, there won't be a problem.
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PostAuthor: Aradan Kir » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:01 pm

I do play a character who thinks she is a vampire, but I hope this doesn't fall into this category, as she merely thinks she is one - but she obviously isn't.

So although she might think she has tremendous strength and cannot abide sunlight etc, it reality these things do not exist. (so if I try and throw someone out of an upstairs window - she will fail)

However, because she believes it, other characters have acted towards her like she really is a vampire (which feeds her belief even more), in so far as seeing someone actively avoiding sunlight, and trying to bite your neck makes others back off VERY quickly!

I personally thought this was quite fun (and good roleplaying), but if you feel this is a bad idea, then I won't play her anymore (she was only a temp character whilst my main one was restored anyway)
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PostAuthor: Arcsylver » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:28 pm

I have a question regarding this.


Would making a character that is a standard race such as elf, but taking advantage of the hakpack customisations to allow for a different head, or custom eye/lip color be considered cheesing?


The reason I ask is that I do not know how to get the custom heads into the game and have not been able to find any info on how to do it yet but I would like to use them and if the standard character creation does not allow it I may have to use the CODI one to make what I am wanting..
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PostAuthor: Sunscream » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:35 pm

Arcsylver, your question was answered here:
http://boards.blackdagger.com/viewtopic.php?t=13257&highlight=
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PostAuthor: Vanor » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:38 pm

To Aradan Kir,

I don't think this would be a problem... It is proably a character that won't get much DM love however as what your doing is bordering on cheesy... But like Orleron once said, anything done well enoough can be ok.

As long as you don't expect people to react to your PC as if she were a vampire, and don't demand them to do so. I don't think what your doing is ok. If you asked one of us before you started doing this, we would of probably told you not to. But it sounds like your doing it right.

To Arcsylver,

What your talking about is simply a custom head, I'm not sure how to do what you want either. You may want to try the bioware boards or NWVault and see if you can find out how to do it.

But you shouldn't have to make a custom race PC to simply get the new heads.
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PostAuthor: Arcsylver » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:52 pm

Well as it stands right now you cant do it with either way of creating a charactr due to the numbering of the heads.

The three custom heads are numbered 12, 13 and 14 and the character creation stops at 11.

I was just wondering if for some stupid reason Bioware has nerfed it to where you cannot do it using the standard way would it be possible once we figure out how to do so.
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PostAuthor: j5hale3 » Fri May 09, 2003 3:44 pm

I have a question about cheesing.

I'm trying to develop a character based on Kathine Kurtz's Deryni. Can I emote/explain standard effects in non-standard ways.

For example Open locks From the books, a Deryni can "feel" the inner workings and use slight telekensis to open it.

Also, Can I emote "Sneak Attack" as "Studied Attack" espcially with the Bow. "character calmly takes aim...waits for a opening.. releases arrow"

Let me know before I go too far.

Thanks,

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PostAuthor: tindertwiggy » Fri May 09, 2003 6:40 pm

j5hale3 wrote:I have a question about cheesing.

I'm trying to develop a character based on Kathine Kurtz's Deryni. Can I emote/explain standard effects in non-standard ways.

For example Open locks From the books, a Deryni can "feel" the inner workings and use slight telekensis to open it.

Also, Can I emote "Sneak Attack" as "Studied Attack" espcially with the Bow. "character calmly takes aim...waits for a opening.. releases arrow"

Let me know before I go too far.

Thanks,
J5Hale3


no is the general answer.

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PostAuthor: Aloro » Fri May 09, 2003 6:46 pm

I'm trying to develop a character based on Kathine Kurtz's Deryni. Can I emote/explain standard effects in non-standard ways.


Errr... the problem here is that you're claiming your character has powers and abilities that he or she does not in truth have, thus it is "cheesing" as Orleron defined it.

For example Open locks From the books, a Deryni can "feel" the inner workings and use slight telekensis to open it.


Whereas in Avlis, you get a choice of either picking it manually, or using a spell like Knock. :)

If you're looking to import something from another world, don't.

Generally speaking, things in Avlis are the way the Team wants them. Don't try to bring in powers, abilities, or backgrounds from any other world - they don't fit here.

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PostAuthor: Orleron » Fri May 09, 2003 6:47 pm

You can roleplay taking aim and taking a careful shot as a sneak attack. There's nothing wrong with that. But the telekinesis thing is VERY borderline. I would stay away from it.
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PostAuthor: j5hale3 » Fri May 09, 2003 8:02 pm

Well, I'm glad I asked before going too far. I just want to let the team know that I'm not trying to import the deryni race because much what they are is tied strongly to the background of the novels. I just thinking in gerneral terms, and only using available powers and skills to create a similar effect.

Mental (magical) powers replicated by sorcery, Mental (ESP) powers by high persuade, Keen senses by alertness, spot, & listen skills, VERY slight TK by open locks and sneak attack (bow), Ritual magic by RP.

I will try to develop this concept but I'll stay from the Cheese factor.

PS. Great job on the world, I wouldn't dream of trying to FUBAR it. Orl, Send me (PM) a snail mail address to send a donation.

Best Regards,

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PostAuthor: ashzz » Wed May 21, 2003 11:30 am

Regarding roleplay cheese, there is omeone running around right now, Ivyforound or somethig, and she flicks her tail. Now, i was thinking tiefling, so i looked at the character sheet, and its got the standard bioware description for an elf in there.

If your gonna play something abnormal, like a person with a tail or something bizarre, i would request that your character sheet has a description of the person ie, you see a normal looking women infront of you, but there is a tail sticking out of her ass.

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PostAuthor: Olaf » Wed May 21, 2003 11:45 am

ashzz wrote:Regarding roleplay cheese, there is omeone running around right now, Ivyforound or somethig, and she flicks her tail. Now, i was thinking tiefling, so i looked at the character sheet, and its got the standard bioware description for an elf in there.

If your gonna play something abnormal, like a person with a tail or something bizarre, i would request that your character sheet has a description of the person ie, you see a normal looking women infront of you, but there is a tail sticking out of her ass.

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People have expressed the opinion on other threads that you DONT let the discription role play your character. YOU role play your charcater..and i think i am doing a FINE job at that. SO you..play your little character and I'll play my little Ivy with the tail "sticking out of her ass" :twisted:
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PostAuthor: Aradan Kir » Wed May 21, 2003 11:57 am

Vanor wrote:To Aradan Kir,

I don't think this would be a problem... It is proably a character that won't get much DM love however as what your doing is bordering on cheesy... But like Orleron once said, anything done well enoough can be ok.

As long as you don't expect people to react to your PC as if she were a vampire, and don't demand them to do so. I don't think what your doing is ok. If you asked one of us before you started doing this, we would of probably told you not to. But it sounds like your doing it right.


After reading the above and the rest of this thread, I think perhaps it was a little cheesy to play this character. Oh well, as I said she was only a temporary thing - and will be deleted soon (due to 90 days thing) anyway.

I do sometimes tire of playing the one character all the time, but don't have the time to invest in another major character, but I'll bear this thread in mind if I create any more temps.
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PostAuthor: Korrigan » Wed May 21, 2003 12:01 pm

I may be wrong, but :

Cheesy would be to fake a real vampire.

There are lots of goth dudes and girls who think they are vampires, live like vampires, drink tomato juice (or worse, animal blood) in real life. I won't judge, to each his own fun. This kind of char would I think be even fun to play (of course, he would have none of the real vampires powers, he just thinks he is one).

I can imagine the surprise of the farmer seing that someone takes blood from his cows/boards whatever *grins*
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PostAuthor: Aradan Kir » Wed May 21, 2003 12:11 pm

Actually it was fun!

She was a seriously sexy minx, who lurked in the Romini baths and lured unsuspecting males to their deaths (well that was the theory - she never actually killed anyone).

Managed to do this this twice, and each time that she lured them up into one of the Inn rooms, she proceeded to blindfold them, and then just when they thought their luck was in, she'd bite their neck and try to drink their blood. Mind you, because she wasn't actually a vampire (and was 1st level), they had a fairly easy time throwing her off and escaping.

he he .... might bring her back sometime. So, if you're in the baths one dark evening, and see a sultry figure slip into the water beside you ..... beware !!

PS Can't remember the names of the guys she attacked - but if it was you, reply and tell me if you thought this was cheesy, or if you thought it was just good roleplaying.
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PostAuthor: jadeia » Thu May 22, 2003 1:59 am

Korrigan wrote:I may be wrong, but :

Cheesy would be to fake a real vampire.

...This kind of char would I think be even fun to play (of course, he would have none of the real vampires powers, he just thinks he is one)...


Been there, done that. Why do you think Orl posted this in the first place :)
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PostAuthor: Starslayer_D » Thu May 22, 2003 8:07 am

[quote="Arcsylver"]I have a question regarding this.


Would making a character that is a standard race such as elf, but taking advantage of the hakpack customisations to allow for a different head, or custom eye/lip color be considered cheesing?

quote]


Custom lip and eye color is very easy.. as I found out recently... tatoo colors do color the yes and lips as well... doh!

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PostAuthor: Zelphi » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:15 pm

What about minor spells and abilities a character might have, like reading minds (with OOC tell requests if necissary) or making it slightly more windy, creating sparkles or prentending you cast a spell, without it going off, for example you might want to show off a weird effect but not mean to set it off and kill people.
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PostAuthor: Korrigan » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:17 pm

What about minor spells and abilities a character might have, like reading minds


Not sure reading minds would be a MINOR ability ...
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PostAuthor: Lafferty » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:20 pm

reading minds MINOR?

Orl stated that several times:

If it is not explicitly implemented in NWN it is cheesing!

But one exception comes to my mind : charm person (which is a topic on its own)
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PostAuthor: JollyOrc » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:20 pm

easy rules, out of common sense, DM's might confirm this :

* If it could be done with the engine instead of writing it, don't write it.

* if it in any way affects other players in terms of them getting hurt / healed / forces them to do things / prohibits them to do things, don't do it.

* If you are unsure if it is allowed: Don't do it until you've got a DM approval.

* If you think it might be cheesy, feel unsure.
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PostAuthor: Zelphi » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:21 pm

Detect thoughts is a level 2 arcane spell that lets you read surface thoughts and there are cantrips that let you do minor displays. A level 20 divination wizard might be able to learn something about a person though, and certainly legend lore would.
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PostAuthor: Lafferty » Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:23 pm

ok , lets say the team decides this should get part of avlis. how?
The original set of spells did not contain this kind of spells for one very simple reason: It is impossible to code it generally (with generally i mean: also working in Multiplayer)

and again: Charm person as exception
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