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Low Magic?

A forum to comment on any Avlis material you've read, and to ask questions about it.

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PostAuthor: Vanor » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:07 pm

I thought I'd try and clear up a few things.

I'm what I like to think of as a 2nd generation player here on Avlis. I came in after the 1%'s like Vian, Strangg, and tindertwiggy. But not much after. I remember the days before there was a wilderness server, let alone Elysia or Le'Or... Kima, Timo, Kira are all also 2nd gen players.

We all started in the days when there were high level PC's out there colecting a ton of magic stuff, and sell it to merchants. I remember buying a +3 towershield at like 6th level so I could use it at 8th.

There is a point here... trust me :)

Avlis is a low magic world, but that term means different things to different people I think.

As I understand it, it doesn't mean magic is rare on Avlis, but only that powerfull magic is. So +1 or even +2 weapons or armor are not extreamly rare. +3 and better items are quite rare though.

This does however lead to a small imbalance between mages and warriors... Mages have their full range of powerfull magic, but warriors don't. But considering how much being a low level mage sucks, I think this is at least somewhat fair.

One thing to keep in mind, the balance of magic in Avlis is something that will be constantly tweaked and changed. Orleron has a feel for where he wants it to be at... How many glowing weapons he may see if he logs on, vs how many powerfull but non glowing ones, stuff like that. I think the amount of magic in Avlis will be constantly changing as players come and go. So we are going though waves of magic avliablity...

We're at a low cycle now, to clear out the mass tonnage of magic that was never ment to be there in the first place, once this is done, you'll proably see the amount go up until it gets a bit to high, and dips back down again.
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PostAuthor: tindertwiggy » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:23 pm

Good points Vanor.

We are at a low point, and when we figure out just where we are it should go back up. It will be a cycle though, as we make minute adjustments the whole way through.

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PostAuthor: Vanor » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:33 pm

tindertwiggy wrote:Good points Vanor.


Thank you :) I could be wrong about the whole thing, but that's the impression I got from Orleron about it from various threads I've been involved with.

It will be a cycle though, as we make minute adjustments the whole way through.


Something else to keep in mind, is the changes won't be quick and won't be drastic. More like how the fed changes the prime interest rate from time to time. A little bit here, wait a month or so to see how it goes, then a bit more, wait, a bit more, wait, too much, back down a bit, wait...

So don't expect to show up one day and see +3 weapons droping from the sky...
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PostAuthor: lord_ion » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:59 pm

I know it has been said before, but I'd just like to point out that a lot of monsters are WAY too powerful if people are not going to be running around buffed out the ass with +5 dodge/deflection/ac/natural ac and a +5 noodle of everything slaying. Yes Avlis is supposed to be a tough place, but we're only encouraging potion swilling when you cannot survive ANY challenging battle without downing a ton of cure crits. Maybe Dok is just at that middle point where many things are not challenging at all, and many things are decimating, but almost nothing is just right.

I would also like to point out that struggling against 20 1/2 elven bandits and a few elven sorcerors ends with NOTHING dropped. Ok, maybe they'd been having a rough season, but out of 25 creatures (I have NO idea who could possibly have spawned this many baddies all at once...and man, did they fire a lot of arrows. OUCH!) I think maybe one of them would have a few gold salted away.

Please take this as constructive criticism, this is not a complaint, money is not that hard to come by. I simply feel that there is an unbalance in the drops. I can make 250k in an hour by farming the lizardmen and Angadar clerics with little to no serious risk on my part so long as I am careful. I'm not saying remove them entirely (as was bafflingly done with drops from Equalizers...why nerf Eqs and leave avengers, lizardmen, and Angadar clerics? Where the Eq's just too close to Mikona? Did too many spawn up?) nor am I saying that EVERY creature should drop. But I think out of a given large encounter, SOME creature should drop SOMETHING. Right now I feel like drops are all-or-nothing just like challenging battles are. Either a creature NEVER drops ANYTHING, EVER, or they ALWAYS drop a good magic item? Is it possible to have there be a % chance that a creature will drop an item from a table? And by item here I don't mean magick. Gems, jewelry, normal armor and weapons, gold, all of these are viable options. Even if it's garbage most of the time, players will still feel like these battles are more than just a waste of potions. You will always end every fight with the thought, "Maybe, just maybe *this time* there will be that +1 Battle Axe I've been looking for!"
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PostAuthor: Vanor » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:14 pm

lord_ion wrote:Maybe Dok is just at that middle point where many things are not challenging at all, and many things are decimating, but almost nothing is just right.


That could be. I know most people go though a slump where things are either too wimpy or too hard, but adventualy you get out of that.

But I think out of a given large encounter, SOME creature should drop SOMETHING. Right now I feel like drops are all-or-nothing just like challenging battles are.


I agree, I'd like to see monsters start to drop stuff much more offten, even if it's just a quiver of arrows, a dagger or a gem.

It seems that offten there's two ways to go out and fight, either you fight for exp's, or you fight for money, and seldom can you do the same thing at the same place.
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PostAuthor: lord_ion » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:44 pm

Vanor wrote:I agree, I'd like to see monsters start to drop stuff much more offten, even if it's just a quiver of arrows, a dagger or a gem.

It seems that offten there's two ways to go out and fight, either you fight for exp's, or you fight for money, and seldom can you do the same thing at the same place.


Thank you Vanor for saying what I meant to say in one sentence rather than a novella.
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PostAuthor: WrathOG777 » Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:06 am

Well I do a lot of talking, and asking and not a lot of helping. So since we are on a subject that I am also concerned about. This loot issue and character caring too much about it, and how much magic, etc etc. How exatcly could I help? I looked through the whole item creation and world building. Seems like there is one big list of items that you go through to add to or subtract from. I know folks are busy and this seem like something I might be able to handle doing.

That is my opinion, not nessasarily anyone else's opinon, might just be, but that would be a coincodence, and damnit, sometimes the crap I write is not even my opinion either.
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PostAuthor: w_wolf » Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:04 am

Vanor wrote:So don't expect to show up one day and see +3 weapons droping from the sky...

I know a certain group of would-be blacksmiths who would be very pissed at such an event :-)
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PostAuthor: Sylvan Phoenix » Wed May 07, 2003 6:36 pm

I've got a couple of thoughts on magic drops and items. Since I just reread this thread, I thought I'd throw it here. ;)

On magic drops, there's a simple script that you can add when a creature dies to limit magic drops. So you can put on a whole bunch of items on a creature and when it dies only a specified number will drop. You can say that Elf mercs have 5% of dropping 1 item when they die. That one item could be picked from a collection of items. This makes a chance for dropping something, doesn't have to be great. But also keeps it from being the Angadar Cleric deal where every cleric drops a valuable holy item and bastard sword. It's a nice in-between zero drops to drops a bunch every time.

On items, there were some things that I was coding a while ago in another PW that I thought was cool. I created a string of quests that yeilded items as rewards. The beginning quests were various small quests that would build up a reputation in that community. I originally gave our magical rings. The first was a simple +1 to AC. It was a Copper Ring of Eveningstar. As the PC did more quests and earned more reputation they would eventually earn a silver ring, gold, then platinum. The ring would continually be 'upgraded'. This was my way of tracking their quest progress (as I didn't have something like NWNX). Eventually their reward beyond the ring was to gain audience with the town's leader. I also had item quests that could be attempted once they earned a certain ring. I was in the process of implementing them but essentially there would be a finite number that character could do, say 4. The first was a moderate item of note and they increased in power. For each item they could choose what they would like to seek. This was going to be phrased in a vague terms so the PC would not know what it would be. An example would be 'a ring for scholars' as opposed to a +3 Int ring. I would also base the choices off of alignment or class. That way each PC would end up with a more customized list of items. I'd tie the items into the quest storyline so that they weren't boring +3 weapons or such, but items with history and flavor.

Anyway, the item quests are something interesting for PCs to do when not active in RPing or doing DM quests. It also would allow for a controlled way to allow PCs to gain mid-level items without DM invention. Just some thoughts.

Cheers,
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PostAuthor: Orleron » Wed May 07, 2003 6:42 pm

The treasure system has been totally revamped since this thread came out. PLEASE don't open this can of worms again. It is all irrelevant now.
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